Introduction to the New Era of Aquatic Safety
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You need to feel, see, and touch. Yes. Right. To truly understand. And when
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we’re talking tools that are life safety, there’s nothing greater. Like
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that’s where you spend your time and effort to understand because if you don’t protect the people at your
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facility, you’re in trouble from the get- go. Yeah. This is fascinating stuff. I think what you guys are doing with regards to
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technology, the steps that you’ve taken to understand how to build what’s actually going to work for these parks
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and then implement it in ways because you have been through many generations
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in the aquatic industry. Welcome to Live with Sandre. We’re living in a moment where the attraction
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industry is being pushed forward faster than ever before. AI, data, automation,
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technology is moving at speeds we’ve never seen before. But underneath all of that, there’s something even bigger
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happening. Legacy brands, the companies that help build the industry, are now
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being asked to evolve in real time, to move faster, to rethink operations, to
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modernize without losing the trust and foundations that made them respectable
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in the first place. And that’s not just business challenges. It’s leadership
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challenges. If you’re thinking about what the industry is going to become in 10, 20, 30 years from now, today’s guest
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is living that reality every day. Today I’m joined by Benjamin Strong, COO of
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Ellis Aquatic Innovation and Ellis International. Ben literally grew up
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inside this industry. He started working in aquatics at just 14 years old,
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learning from many of the pioneers who built the modern aquatics world from the ground up. Today, he’s leading the next
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evolution of that legacy, scaling high techch, datadriven life-saving systems
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worldwide. But what makes this conversation interesting isn’t just technology. It’s the tension between
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honoring the past while building the future. Ben, welcome to Live with
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Sandre. Ben, welcome to the show. I’m excited to be here. Thank you for
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having me. Thank you for for coming out here. Well, I’m hoping you’re okay with me just kind of jumping right in. 14 starting at 14
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years old in this industry. Yeah. And uh I know that this probably just been a
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wild ride for you and and such an amazing journey, but I’m hoping maybe you could stop uh or start us off with
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understanding a little bit about who you are, your companies for those that maybe
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don’t know, and maybe a little back history, backstory.
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Yeah, absolutely. So, uh my name is Benjamin Strong. I uh I grew up in uh
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the middle of the cornfield area of Indiana, Anderson, Indiana. And uh I’ve
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I’ve always had a huge passion for aquatics my entire life. I was the uh local pool rat doing everything that he
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could to get into the pools when they opened up for the summertime. And uh that eventually grew into a passion of
The Career Journey: From Lifeguard to Industry Leader
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uh entering in when I was 14 as a as a junior lifeguard. Wow. My first opportunity. Um, I was so
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excited, so nervous. Um, but then that developed into a uh lifelong
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lifeguarding career. So I, yeah, I’ve been a lifeguard since my first time was
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15 when I officially passed the first course, was a junior guard at 14 and coached swim clubs, swam on the swim
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team. A very typical, you know, run-of-the-mill career as it relates to relates to lifeguarding. Um,
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I uh left lifeguarding for only a few short years uh while I went to school up
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at Purdue University and then uh quickly after um in 2005 moved down to uh Tampa,
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Florida where uh I worked down there um at the FWC for a little while and then
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um in 2006 I got connected with uh Ellis, Jeff Ellison Associates and uh
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really started what ended up being a lifelong career. Uh it was absolutely uh
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an amazing opportunity. I started as a lifeguard and over the course of 20
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years fulfilled almost every single role in the company from lifeguard to
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supervisor to manager um aquatic director instructor
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instructor trainers you name it. Uh so it’s been a wild ride over the last 20 years and I’m so thankful to have had um
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such amazing mentors all along the way. the uh aquatic and entertainment
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industry is is s is fun. It’s exciting, right? It has a way of sucking you in
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and keeping you in a part of it. Yeah. And uh I’ve made some of my uh best
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friends in the industry. Um and they’ve become family to me. So,
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it’s been all-encompassing and I feel very grateful to be one of those people that have found what they truly love and
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create a lifong career and a passion for it. I love that. And I love that you’re you
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you share a similar sentiment to a lot of people who come on this show that have been in this industry for most of
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their lives, including myself. I haven’t done anything else my entire adult life. But the the interesting thing to me is
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how we all start in these these ways as lifeguard. Yeah.
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In my case, I was I was a game room tech and yeah, you know, an operator, a general manager
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of a family entertainment center. And I never really saw where I was going
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in the industry. And I’m curious if that was something you saw for yourself. Oh, I don’t think I had any idea where I
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would end up at the end of the day. I just always felt that there was always
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an opportunity for growth. There was always a chance to do something new. Um,
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it was or has been an industry I think that you can create those opportunities
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in it as well, right? I mean, most of the time the opportunity is out there.
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You just need to be willing to work hard enough to seize it and to go after it and being proactive with it to get
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there. Yeah, I agree. In fact, I just made a post yesterday about, you know, the uh
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this industry really relies on people bringing value to it and being somebody
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that’s going to do what they say they’re going to do because this is an industry where that’s trust is really important. Oh, it’s huge
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amongst our peers, but then also with the guests, right? Yeah. Um, which kind which kind of
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brings me to one of the the questions that I have with regards to the business
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that you’re in and having learned from industry pioneers, people who have shaped the aquatic industry, you’ve had
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you’ve had that experience and had that time with them and I’m curious if having
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learned from those people if that is something that maybe is a safety net for
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you with the decisions in your company or the decisions that you have to make with regards to the business and where
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you are or if it’s maybe a heavy load to carry when having to make some tough
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decisions for the business because you are COO of this company. I would say it’s a little bit of both.
Mentorship and Culture in the Aquatics Industry
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Okay. Absolutely. Have I benefited from having the opportunity to experience to learn
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from really some of the founding uh individuals of the water park industry.
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I mean, it’s not that old. It’s only been around for about a little over 40 years, right? So, some of the mentors
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that and the people that I’ve met all along the way really developed what that means and really what it means to
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service the people in a safe manner and ensure that everybody walks away
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healthy, happy, and they had a great and enjoyable day. Um, and they set those
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standards really, really high. and they’ve imparted the the the knowledge,
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the understanding, and the skill sets necessary to do that on those around them. And they were always I don’t think
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I met any major leader in the industry that wasn’t a good mentor,
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right? I mean, they they got into it themselves because they had a passion for people,
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those around them, and wanting to serve other people. and that inherently put
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them into a position to be a good leader and a good mentor and they always found
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ways to impart that to those around them. And so as
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I developed and grew as a leader myself and I still have a lot to learn. I don’t think you ever stop learning along the
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way. Um that pressure is there, right? And that service of excellence and that
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high standards of expectations and that expectation of zero drownings in the
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aquatic community of hey everybody has to leave safe, happy and healthy at all
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times and that is your job no matter what. um does put a lot of pressure, but
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it also gives us a good opportunity to realize that there’s always room for
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improvement. And there are a lot of different ways that we can
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there are a lot of different ways that we can use resources around us to
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improve upon that process and procedure, make it more effective. So, as I step into that leadership role, I try to
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always remember, you know, it’s it’s all about the people. Um, it’s all about
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finding new, better, more efficient ways uh to service those that enter into all
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of our parts. Well, and I’m sure that leads to a lot of innovation. Yes. And I’m hoping maybe you can speak a
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little bit to this life-saving technology that you’re you’re also pioneering in the space.
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Yeah. and maybe maybe how that came to be because I think you know having also been in the industry for 25 years we are
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always seeing an evolution of solutions that are needed for operators and I think this question is maybe twofold
Rethinking Operational Friction in Water Parks
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because I’m sure like like like me running a tech company there’s been many times where I go into
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uh one of our parks and realize that some of these parks are not only drowning in operational friction but
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sometimes even system friction and I know that that is something that you want to tackle with this technology.
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Absolutely. I am so extremely excited to talk about this to be honest because it’s been a passion of ours for eight
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years and running and it all came about because at the end of the day at at our
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heart at our core we are we are operators. We are lifeguards. That’s what we grew up doing. And that has
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given us the ability insight to understand all of its challenges, issues and problems. And the reality of it is
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is the industry is changing. Whether we want it to change or not, it is changing
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around us. And those jobs, those important duties and responsibilities that we have are getting harder and
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harder to meet and fulfill. Whether it’s staffing challenges and reduction, the
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quality of staff, uh length of training obligations to it, the complexity of the
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attractions. Think how much they’ve developed and grown over the course of the last just 20 years alone. It’s been
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immense and it’s been exciting. But all of those changes force you to change
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your training protocols, your curriculum, how you operate. That that whole dynamic has shifted within our
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industry. And the writing was on the wall a decade ago. It’s changing and we
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have to evolve and change with it. And the question was how? How are we going to evolve and change? The reality of it
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is as we sit today, I really do feel this way that, you know, most of the
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world out there from a a lifeguard and safety perspective is really operating
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the same way they did 40 years ago and there’s very little use of technology in
Introduction to the Ellis Aquatic Vigilant (EAV) System
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the safety arena. Yeah. which is kind of crazy because if you look at every other industry out
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there, they’re endop they’re adopting these high-end technologies to improve
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efficiencies uh across the board. And I really felt that we were being left out
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in the dark. And there are numerous numerous reasons why I think that was happening. But the reality of it was it
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it was. And so I think when we went to
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try to figure out what was the root cause of this, we started to understand that there were little ways that we can
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incorporate existing technologies in other areas or sectors into ours to
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start to help offset some of those challenges and those issues. And that’s
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ultimately where and why we started what is called the EVE system. It’s called the Ellis Aquatic Vigilant System. And
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the purpose of that system is to provide an additional set of eyes, right? An
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additional viewpoint for the lifeguards that are currently out on deck
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responsible for the safety and and of all the patrons that visit the facility
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that enter into the bodies of water and need to exit safely and be watched over
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and protected throughout that entire time. And uh the whole aspect of the ease system is is to be that to be that
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additional set of eyes to assist the lifeguards to improve res recognition
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response aspect of it and to be able to handle those situations efficiently and
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effectively. Wow, that’s pretty incredible. Yeah, that’s pretty incredible. And you know,
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I I I know that oftentimes we hear that, well, is it going to replace all the
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jobs, right? Like that’s a question I get all the time. It’s going to replace all the jobs, but at the same time, what I’m hearing from you is it’s enhancing
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what they’re already doing. It’s absolutely it’s bringing more value to the lifeguarding that’s happening in
Human-in-the-Loop Technology: Enhancing Lifeguard Performance
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these parks. Yeah. In terms of safety and also just protection of the guests, right?
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Yeah. You know, that’s one of the biggest questions that we get faced with all the time. Well, it’s replacing guards. It’s replacing guards. That’s
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not the intent or the objective in any way, shape, or form. It’s to allow us a little bit more flex flexibility with
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how we utilize those team members, right? So that we can be more efficient and effective. And we talked about some
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of those changes that are happening in our industry, the reality that we’re faced with every day. I don’t know any
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facilities on a global scale that do not have staffing issues and challenges. And
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of the last 5 to 10 years, I would say so many times most of those parks, most
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of those facilities and operations can’t operate all of their attractions at the
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same time because they can’t get even enough team members to operate them safely or they limit those operational
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hours. Park district effort park district around this country limit pool hours
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because they physically cannot staff them. So this isn’t about replacing guards in any way, shape, or form. It’s
How the EAV System Supports Understaffed Facilities
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about how do we utilize technology so that we can operate them the way that we need to, the way we want to, the way the
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public wants to, right? And then at the same time enhance safety. The the job
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duty of a lifeguard is so difficult and challenging. It is. I mean, it is
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tireless work. It’s exhausting. You’re out there in the elements day in and day out. You’re dealing with all different
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types of personalities and patrons and guest interactions and the demands of
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that job are only increasing. They’re not lightning, right? And as a result of
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all of those challenges, the lifeguards need a tool to optimize their responsibilities as
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much as possible. They need somebody behind the scenes that can be
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that support. Sure. When they get overloaded and that’s what the system really does help to do. Um
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along with that, it it does help to identify those challenges. It is really
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difficult. It can be really difficult to identify an individual that’s in
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distress when you have a few hundred people or a few thousand people in your
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park and a million things are going on and you’re trying to identify that one
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individual in the mix of thousands, right? And when signs and symptoms of
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distress vary greatly, having a system that can help identify
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an alert and say, “Hey, pay attention over here. There’s something not normal.
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There’s something not right.” Alert, focus over here. That’s a huge valuable
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tool. And I don’t know why anybody uh that is interested in safety would shun
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that potential. Sure. And I appreciate you taking us through that scenario because that was a question I had for you is like what does
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that look like? But that was a great visual on, you know, being able to manage in such a a a huge situation.
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You’re right. 500, you know, you have hundreds of people in a weight pool and and I’ve often thought about what
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that must feel like or um how stressful that is for the lifeguards that are that
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are on duty. I mean, I I have kids uh who I’m in this in I I know I mentioned
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that I started in family entertainment, but my first uh gate master client was a water park.
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That’s how we ended up in water parks. and having visited them and then and then taking my own family, my own kids
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and being very uh aware of situations for my young children that were in these
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pools and and putting so much trust in these businesses and the lifeguards. Um
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I can see so much value in what you are doing with this technology. Now my
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but it does peique my curiosity. Do you know what would keep a water park from wanting to have something like this
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today? Um I think there are a lot of mis mis
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perceptions um about what the system is and its
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intent and like with anything right there’s probably a lot of apprehension
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because of those misperceptions right immediately as you said earlier like hey
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it’s re it’s removing lifeguards well no that’s not the purpose of it right so
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let’s talk about what that purpose is right and we try and to always invite
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individuals within our industry to come see it. It is one of those things a picture is worth a thousand words,
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right? When you come in and see how the system is completely designed, which is all human centered, human in the loop.
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And I’ll change out human to lifeguard in the loop. Lifeguard centered completely. The system does not work
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without the lifeguard being regularly involved. It can help identify somebody
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in distress. It can identify a problem that is happening in a body of water.
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That’s a fantastic tool to use, but it still relies upon the response of a
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individual of a lifeguard to go physically retrieve that individual and
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provide proper care and followup. So, I think it’s because of those perceptions
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that are out there right now that we need to start breaking down those walls and barriers. And I’ll be honest,
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everybody that walks through the door is always immediately blown away. They’re like, “Wow, this isn’t what I thought. I
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understand, right? This does bring huge value.” And it’s not just huge value to
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those that don’t know about its capabilities or what it does. It’s huge value to us. The the Ellis organization
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has been training lifeguards for over 40 years. Over 40 years,
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right? That’s incredible. But we are learning so much more about
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what the drowning process is, what it looks like, the timeline that it happens
Data-Driven Safety: Lessons from 25,000+ Real Rescues
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because the utilization of this technology, it it is fundamentally going
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to change the entire aquatic industry. I have zero doubt about that because we’re
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learning so much more every day because we’re able to now aggregate all of the data, all of that information. We have
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over 25,000 real life rescues recorded and
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documented. These are not staged rescues. These are real people in distress of all ages, shapes, sizes,
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ethnicities in all different types of attractions from your flatwater typical six lane lat pool to your wave pools and
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lazy rivers and flow riders. I mean, all of these different slides that we have out there nowadays, and that information
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and data is critical to the evolution of our entire industry, to the way we
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design rides, to how we respond, to our own training content and curriculum,
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which is currently under review for integration of
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all of those learnings that we’ve had. How do we bring that back and change our own content and curriculum that has been
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successful for 40 years, but the reality of it is it needs to change and evolve
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as you learn more information moving forward. Well, and I think that’s so interesting you brought up the data because I I
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often have this conversation with the parks that I’m working with and and we’re on ticketing side. So, but you
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know, so many of them haven’t had the right information to make decisions. And I think that’s what I’m hearing from you
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right now is that as you’ve developed this program and you’ve been able to learn from the data that’s being
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collected, you’re able to enhance the processes that save lives. And I think it’s I I
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think that that’s um also a big misconception in the industry because a lot of times, you know, we get asked
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about like the data being used for surveillance. And I’m a I’m a big fan of only, you know, we only use the data
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that we we need to enhance the guest experience. Yeah. There’s there’s just things we don’t
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really care about. Yeah. And it doesn’t matter. It’s not going to affect uh the the guest experience. But
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what we do want to collect is data that can help these parks make better decisions. And that’s what I’m hearing from you.
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Absolutely. 1,000%. I I really think our our industry has put up walls and
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barriers in the past because everybody was concerned about data rights, right?
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Was concerned about the the monitoring of individuals. The reality of it is is
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we we need that information to be able to evolve and to figure out how we integrate new technologies to be
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successful. And I think that where we’re headed, there’s so much information,
24:05
connected systems from the the second somebody walks into the park to the
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moment that they leave that there’s so many opportunities to to pull that data and information, analyzing it for that
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safety and health of the guest, right? And that’s where that’s where it all stems from. And without the data sets
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that we have now, we wouldn’t have been able to evolve and change. There’s no
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doubt about it. And I always tell people or patrons when they they ask about the
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system because they do get excited. Initially when we started rolling this out, we thought, man, there’s going to
Overcoming Public Perception and Data Privacy Concerns
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be a lot of apprehension. We’re monitoring everybody in the bodies of water at all times. And then
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once we started doing it, we brought in groups of people. Hey, how do you feel about this? And there was there was no
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apprehension. There was pure and utter excitement. Yeah. And I was a little shocked at first. I
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was like, oh, I thought we were going to get a lot more push back. But the reality of it was and they’re like, listen, you are there to protect our
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children. And when we’re doing a job that you don’t get a second chance, if
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somebody fails at what we do, that’s a fatality. There’s no going
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back. You don’t fix it. You don’t repair it. You know that that is a a loss for
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the the parent, the child, the individual, the park, and the entire
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community. This is a serious thing. Yes. So why would we not want to use that
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data and information to reduce that risk and put as many different layers of
25:47
protection in there as possible because the reality of it is there are still hundreds if not thousands of drownings
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that happen around this country every single year at pools where people are
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responsible to watch those bodies of water. And when we know all it literally
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takes is a few seconds of a parent not paying attention to their child, right,
26:13
where they they run off. It takes a few seconds to go from conscious to unconscious. That’s a serious task at
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hand, right? Or there’s those medical events that happen. a normal healthy
26:26
individual walks in for a lap swim or they think they’re healthy and next thing they know they suffer a seizure or
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a stroke or a heart attack and they slip beneath that water and within a few
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seconds now you have a major serious of event. If you can take the learnings
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from all of those previous incidents that happened and create a tool or a piece of technology to prevent that, you
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have a moral obligation to do that. Agreed. That’s amazing. I love that. And
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you know, I um I love this because I think I I know
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you’ve been a champion for kind of breaking down these barriers where people have wanted to hide or hoard the
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information of things that have happened in the industry that we’re we’re not necessarily proud of because they were
27:15
issues that compro, you know, where safety was compromised or mistakes that happened or like you said, fatalities
27:22
that have happened. But what I I I like about what you’re saying is that we’re
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going to take this information, we’re going to learn from it, use it to make the industry better, safer, more
27:34
reliable, create more trust in all of our communities, and uh and and help our
27:41
lifeguards out, right? Because how many of how many of them are stuck with parents who assume the lifeguard’s
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watching them? Yeah. Because that’s happening, too. Yeah. Oh, more more and more every
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single day. Unfortunately, I think a lot of individuals walk or a lot of parents
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walk into the facilities with that that false sense of, hey, they’re just going
28:06
to deal with it. I don’t have to. I’m off the clock, right? And that puts a lot of other additional stress on our
28:14
team members, right? because it’s it’s not just the in the water aspect of of
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the rescues and the near drownings, but it’s also the amount of rule enforcement that has to happen, right? And and all
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that. So unfortunately I think that is a part you know when we on your earlier
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comment about some of the major failures and the
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data aspect of it I would say that we’re going to take a quick moment because conversations like this just
28:45
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wtiworld.com. All right, let’s get back into it.
29:49
I always tell people I I personally I learn more from my failures than I do my
29:55
successes. We never want those failures to happen as human beings. I mean, nobody wants to fail, but when they do,
30:04
it’s always important for us to go back and methodically go through why did that
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happen in order to learn from it and prevent it moving forward in the future.
30:14
And historically in the past, people wanted to take that failure and box it
30:20
up and package it and hide it away. And the reality of it is it really should
30:26
come to light. It should come to light so that those problems can be fixed and
30:32
repaired and prevented into the future. And the system does do that.
Uncovering Operational Inefficiencies with Technology
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Yeah, it does do that. And I will give you an example. I you know this is one that
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you’re like oh why would you say this but it is it was we put a system into one of our facilities that we’ve been
30:50
operating for a very long time and we went to go live with it and we flipped
30:56
the system on one of the days of training just a couple first days and one of the first things that we see is a
31:02
lifeguard sleeping on the top of the family raft slide passed out just easing away right
31:11
Yeah. And it’s like these are the things that by having a system like this, it brings
31:19
to light the deficiencies that happen. Whether they be with an individual team
31:25
team member, whether they be with the training component, whether they be with how we’ve designed the operator
31:32
protocols or parameters, whatever it might be. And and we always welcome that because that’s how we learn. That’s how
31:39
we evolve. Yeah. And you know, as somebody in tech and also having when I started in this
31:47
industry, we were moving people from like Casio cash registers to computer systems that were managing cash control.
31:54
And the first thing always that happened in the beginning was you’d find the people who were skimming off the top,
32:00
right? They were taking the cash and because they didn’t understand that the system was watching Yeah.
32:05
Not just watching them, but watching every keystroke. Yeah. And and and I think that’s what I hear from you is that you’re uncovering
32:13
things that are happening probably in these parks that they’re just not aware of. And maybe they’re inefficiencies in
32:18
their team or maybe they’re training. I I mean I don’t know how you train somebody not to fall asleep on the job.
32:25
But that’s a that’s a good thing to discover though that’s happening. Yeah. you know there’s we have ways
32:33
within the system for self accountability and I always think that’s really really important
32:38
right so we’ll even take um some of these metrics and some of these video
32:44
feeds and some of these alerts and we pipe it right back to our own lifeguards
32:49
right and we say hey you know you’re not being as vigilant as you should to be so
32:56
step it up right re-energize yourself or hey communicate ate effectively so we
33:02
can swap out other team members so that we can still meet that standard or expectation and then we provide um
33:10
reward programs and motivational tools around that right there’s we’re we’re
33:15
working on some new ways but I’m a huge advocate that if you can even gify
33:21
certain aspects of it it creates a huge motivational tool especially for the age
33:26
group we’re talking about right most of our pipe guards are between the ages of
33:32
16 to 25 across the entire industry. You know, you have outliers and leaders and
33:37
everything, but this is that group that is very motivated by those type of
33:43
items. And we’ve seen some huge success with that selfaccountability of it. And
33:49
now that we can actually articulate how well we are doing at the job and we can
33:57
score some of those items. Now it’s in front of the their own face and saying, “Oh, wow. We did great. Like we really
34:04
stepped it up.” When we can get to the point where we’re at now, where we can actually articulate
34:12
how long it takes to identify a guest, how long it takes for the guard to once
34:18
they identify it to react, and then how long it takes to them to get to that
34:24
guest. I mean, those are all metrics in the old days. There’s no way we had no
34:30
we would we wouldn’t have been able to identify that on average it takes us about 11 seconds of hesitation. That’s
34:37
meaning when I have a person a lifeguard here that has recognized I have somebody
34:42
in distress in my water and we teach and articulate if you don’t know go right
34:48
you go in immediately if you even hesit or if you even suspect somebody’s in distress right you go. But what we’re
34:55
finding is our guards are sitting there and they’re in this disbelief like
35:00
that’s not happening. They’re okay. They’re just playing. And they’ll sit there for another 10 more seconds before
35:08
they respond. Those are life critical moments. I believe it. I’ll tell you, I had an
35:14
experience recently on one of the uh one of the uh IAPA events where we were at a park and uh somebody came running and
35:22
they were choking and one of the the people in our in my com in our in the
35:28
company that we were with or uh in in that was in the group that I was with jumped right to it and helped the guy.
35:34
But I’ll be honest, even I hesitated. Yeah. Like it took me a second to recognize
35:39
what was happening. I mean, I’m not in the job of safety, so I would expect that. But I my my point in telling this
35:47
story is is that the coaching that this tool is giving people who maybe don’t
35:52
realize that they are hesitating. Hesitation, I think, is a normal human behavior. It’s that disbelief. It’s
35:59
like, oh man, what do I do now? And the only way to get rid of that is through
36:05
education and practice. the individual that jumped right in has
36:10
probably practiced that scenario over and over and over and over, right? But a
36:16
new individual that’s a brand new lifeguard coming on for their first day or their first season of operations,
36:23
we constantly have to go through ongoing training, not just after the lifeguard, but ongoing inservice training to get
36:30
them to understand that you don’t hesitate and here’s what happens if you do. Yeah. And that’s a huge component
36:37
that this system brings to the table. We can now show the guards what happens if
36:44
you do hesitate, right? We can show them what that looks like. And that has been
36:51
a gamecher for us. We have a massive library of all of the different ways
36:57
that people drown. And it isn’t this help me, help me, help me, you know,
37:04
shouting for the lifeguard, sitting above the water. It doesn’t look like that at all. Right? But if you don’t
37:10
show somebody what you are looking for, it makes it really hard for them to
37:17
identify and then go in and practice. Yeah. No, I think training is huge and
37:23
continuing to train is super important. I mean, even my team, we say we train every day, and we do, you know, we have
37:29
a program that we train on the stuff that we need to know um for for for our
37:35
scope of work in the industry. But I think it’s super important that that the parks do remember that training is such
37:41
a huge part of being able to create these experiences, good, positive
37:47
experiences for the guests that are coming into the park. And I love that you have you and Ellis have always been
37:53
so focused on the training aspect of our industry. I um I’m curious,
38:00
you know, who doesn’t want this? Is there anybody that or is there anybody that’s just
38:06
if they’re having an issue right now that you would say, “No, you need to be looking at this.” Like what is that
38:11
thing? It’s not necessarily that they don’t want it, but that thing that makes them have that light bulb moment where
38:17
we need this. Um I I would say
38:23
unfortunately I think a lot of people don’t want to know all of the problems.
38:28
Yeah. Right. Um it’s it’s a hard thing to overcome.
38:34
Sure. And to to to get over, right? And I think it really is um people do have
38:42
apprehension about what is the public’s perception of this going to be and there
38:48
were absolutely you overcome that through education. Um you overcome that
38:54
with welcoming people in uh behind the scenes. We do that all of the time. We
39:02
work with different um uh county health departments and uh different boards and
39:09
associations and we always we open everything. We open the books. We want
39:14
them to see the process, the procedure, the training, the statistics and we are happy to share those statistics globally
39:22
with everybody because it’s through that education that we overcome those fears.
39:27
Sure. And also I think like it’s okay to realize that you need to get better.
39:34
Yeah. We have to continue to develop as an industry and that includes learning
39:39
about technology, right? We were having a conversation a little bit earlier before this before we started the show
39:45
and I want to kind of go there a little bit about how I mean I know I know from where I’m sitting it’s been very
39:50
difficult to educate operators on technology because they’re not technical people and that’s not good or bad
39:58
because they are you know I I like to always say like operators of businesses oftentimes are
40:04
great at the thing that they do really well and sometimes we don’t look at the things that we don’t do Well, uh,
40:11
because I mean, who wants to do that? I It’s a natural human behavior, I think, to not want to look the things you’re
40:17
not good at. Yeah. No, absolutely. Um,
40:22
yeah. Listen, I think our industry is um,
40:28
how do I say this? We have, most everybody in our industry is people
40:34
focused, right? We’re we’re out there involved in the commotion. We’re very handson in that group. And a lot of
40:41
times when people think that once you integrate technology, it provides a barrier between you and the guest.
40:49
um if it’s crafted and created and implemented in a in the right way, I
40:56
think it’s an additional tool to to merge that together to um to actually
41:04
use that as a as a uh as a tool to how do I want to put this? I’m not phrasing
41:11
this correctly, but uh I would say to to invite them in and to to kind of create
41:17
a better partnership with the guests that enter into the facility. Um and it
Bridging the Gap: Getting Operators to Adopt Tech
41:22
it just takes a lot of time, too, right? Yeah. Everybody has so much on their plate
41:28
already when they hear, “Hey, I’m going to implement a new technology.” They think how much time and training that
41:36
they’re going to have to do, not just for them, but for the staff and the the local facility, right? what else is that
41:42
going to put onto their plate instead of seeing that as a solution that that’s going to probably optimize or clean up
41:50
some of their own processes and procedures whether it be front gate admissions or operating reports or or
41:57
logs, daily operating reports or chemical maintenance sales marketing.
42:02
All of these technologies can make their life so much easier if they would embrace them.
42:08
I agree. I I I I can’t tell you how often, I’m sure you you probably experienced this too, where you go into
42:15
an operation and they’re completely drowning in
42:20
operational processes that aren’t efficient. That’s a much better way than what I was trying to doing things the the old way, right?
42:27
Because we get that a lot, too. Like, well, we’ve always done it this way. They’re over their heads right now.
42:32
Yeah. Right. and they see that just as adding another thing on top of it instead of finding a better way to do
42:40
their existing process and procedures. And automation automation is going to
42:45
have to happen within certain areas of our industry in order for us to be successful.
42:51
Everybody’s already overworked and underwater as you put it. Yeah, I agree. Well, and I know um I I
42:58
think I think I I saw something about a story when you originally started kind of creating this technology working with
43:06
outside teams that maybe didn’t understand our industry and you know talking about failing
43:12
forward because I’m sure that led to the iter I mean I’ve been there.
43:17
Yeah. I mean there’s I’ve built so many things that didn’t work. Yeah. In terms of technology in the in the
43:23
parks I built this thing called park tabs one time. Okay. And I loved it. It was like my favorite thing, but nobody wanted to use it.
43:29
Yeah. It was like a parkwide tabbing system. It just never really took off. And now
43:34
we’re we use mobile ordering and other other pieces of technology, cashless systems. But at the time, I thought,
43:40
“Oh, this is brilliant.” But, you know, sometimes those ideas aren’t a great fit for the industry or maybe we’re
43:48
not dealing with and and I think this speaks to the AI. You know, so many people say to me all the time, “What are
43:54
you going to do when AI starts coding everything?” Well, it’s going to be very difficult to
43:59
do without somebody who understands the operational processes that need to happen or the safety side of the
44:06
business. Like, it’s going to take people of this industry to work with the AI to even make it work for us.
44:14
1,000%. I couldn’t be more on your page. Um, yeah, I I’ll be honest. When we
44:19
first went down the path of trying to develop the EVE system and to understand
44:25
all the components that would need to come in in order to make that happen, we first initially took the concept or
44:33
ideas and we took it to other titans
44:38
in the around the globe really and we said, “Hey, here’s our idea. Here’s what
44:43
we want to do. How can we make this happen?” And I will say for the first few years it
44:51
was extremely challenging because they would come in and they would do an analysis of of pieces of components and
45:00
pieces of the technology that would need to be implemented at the properties and and we did it and we followed their
45:05
advice and we followed their guidelines and they never quite could grasp or
45:13
understand the severity of what we do the fact that you know within our um
45:21
video surveillance aspect and system that we we can’t afford a 3 second lag
45:28
in video feed or any downtime or latency or pixelations because when I only have
45:36
a few seconds to get to that individual in the first place those things are critical failures from the get-go and it
45:44
was so hard to get them to understand all of the nuances and challenges that
45:49
we deal with as lifeguards from glare, water turbidity, patrons, themings,
45:54
attractions, like it they just became overwhelmed and it was
46:00
a lot of failures. We had a lot of failures and I’m not afraid to say it along the way in those learning
46:05
opportunities to the point that we said enough. Like we understand our industry.
46:12
This is our lifeblood. this is what we do day in and day out. We’re going to
46:17
learn that side of the industry. And we did. And we learned all about conduit
46:24
and cabling and fiber and networking and video surveillance and AI and coding and
46:30
technology and all of those other things. And we’re still learning every single day. Um, and we we still have
46:37
some great titans in the industry and partners that are that are guiding us along that track. But we decided to
46:43
bring it all in house because we understood the ramifications of what
46:49
happens if that does not work. Yes. At all times. I mean, I think it’s interesting because
The Future of Aquatic Infrastructure and Innovation
46:54
a lot of the tech industry doesn’t necessarily understand wet chaotic environments with thousands
47:02
of people. I I’ve been there too. you know, even having to put my developers behind a ticket
47:09
counter or a food stand where you’ve got lines of moms and hangry kids and and how mission
47:15
critical it is for those businesses to have a smooth process. Yeah. And that’s everything
47:20
and and that the technology should be supporting that, not getting in the way of it. And I
47:26
think that’s I think it’s it’s it’s a it’s a great share to say that there are
47:31
failures that happen in technology because I think that many of our parks are seeing failures in their technology
47:37
that they currently have today and they just need to find the right partners. Yeah. And it it is it is finding the
47:44
right partner. Um a lot of the existing parks out there the infrastructure wasn’t set up in the first place to
47:51
adopt all of these new technologies. So it’s almost going back to the very beginning and looking at that
47:57
infrastructure um implementing it and then as you said finding the collective partners that can
48:03
work together because the reality of it is a lot of these systems do need to connect to be successful. The more they
48:11
that they can connect and talk to each other the easier it’ll make the operators the the faster the flow
48:18
through will happen with the guests. Um, and you know to to get to a really good
48:24
point and there are just like within ticketing within our industry, there are
48:31
operators out there. There are people that are claiming that they can do true
48:36
drowning detection. We’ve been through the industry forward
48:42
and backwards and left and right so far and there are a lot of misconceptions as
48:48
to what that means out there and that is a that’s a challenge for us as well too
48:54
to to get them to understand what that really means. Um and how limited
49:04
yeah some of those other systems really are out there. Um, and they they all
49:10
have value in their own ways. So I I’m not trying to lead any negativity here.
49:16
And they’ve all from their the vapor wear is real. Yeah. I mean, I’ve been in technology for 25
49:21
years. Yeah. That’s a real thing. It is. And the people who end up
49:29
with the having to carry the bag when the mistakes happen. Yeah. Are these parks.
49:34
Very true. Very true. It’s a it’s a hard lesson to learn. Yeah. Um and so I always try to encourage
49:42
individuals when they’re going out and looking for systems for their parks, no matter what they are, what they are, to
49:48
do their due diligence. Yeah. And any entity that doesn’t invite
49:54
you over to see a system within an active park and allow you feedback from
50:02
the park directly without their involvement, I would question. Yeah, I would question because I know when
50:10
anybody is ever interested in the EVE system, don’t talk to me. You talk to
50:15
me. I’ll talk to you anytime you want to. I want you to go to this facility,
50:20
any of our facilities to be honest, and our clients will open their doors, invite you in. You need to go see it
50:26
directly yourself and hear from them first. Yeah. Right. It needs to be that open book
50:32
policy. And not everybody’s like that, unfortunately. Not everybody’s like that. You know what? I’ve been in the RFP process or
50:38
even just the bidding process so many times where um I’m told that somebody does something and I’m like, “Well, have
50:44
you actually seen it?” Yeah. Yeah. And you find out they never saw it and
50:50
it never existed. I heard from somebody else. Yeah. Or I saw, you know, a clip. Well, yeah.
50:56
You need to feel, see, and touch. Yes. Right. To truly understand. And when
51:02
we’re talking tools that are life safety, there is there’s nothing greater. like that’s
51:10
where you spend your time and effort to understand because if you don’t protect the people at your facility,
51:17
you’re in trouble from the get-go. Yeah. I mean, it’s literally life and death, right? So, you know, I uh Yeah,
51:25
this is fascinating stuff. I think um I think what you guys are doing with
51:31
regards to technology, the steps that you’ve taken to understand how to build
51:36
what’s actually going to work for these parks and then implement it in ways I mean you’re great candidates for
51:42
implementing this stuff because you have been through many generations in the aquatic industry and then also um a
51:51
legacy company that’s proven and proven success. It’s been around for a
51:57
long time and I really appreciate what you guys have have done for the industry
52:02
and what you advocate for and and how you help all of us do what we do. Well, we’re extremely passionate about
52:08
what we do and and it’s not just because of us. We we have phenomenal partners. I
52:14
mean, we are so blessed um by those partnerships and all of the
52:21
the team members that give countless hours of of dedication to what we do and
52:28
to be in service to the public and the patrons and the the the lives that are
52:35
our lifeguards, the the lives that they change and protect. I mean it’s just
52:41
it it becomes overwhelming and at the end of the day it’s why I do what I do. Yeah.
52:47
I will work all day every day because it’s not just work. It is my passion. It
52:53
is my hobby and there’s I am one of millions within our industry that are
53:00
just like that. They just want to help, right? And it’s it’s a noble cause and
53:06
it’s a great it’s a great industry to be in and I want to change it for the world.
53:12
It’s the best industry. Well, before I let you go, if there is a um if there is
53:19
a park that’s maybe drowning in operational processes or systems that
53:25
aren’t working, you know, what would maybe be one thing that you could give the audience today that they could do
53:30
tomorrow to improve things? What what would be that one thing
53:35
I would say don’t be afraid to go out there and
53:44
find find let’s see how do I put this let’s say don’t be afraid of change
53:51
welcome welcome change because it’s the only way to improve
53:58
um for the better And don’t be afraid.
54:05
Don’t be afraid to try something new. Yeah. Yeah. Don’t be afraid to try something new.
54:10
I I love that. You know, also I think kind of speaks to like don’t just get comfortable. You can’t get comfortable
54:16
in this industry. Yeah. No, you can’t. They’ll You’ll get passed by in a heartbeat
54:23
without a doubt. And there’s a lot of facilities that
54:29
have closed or are closing their doors because they were afraid to evolve. They
54:34
were afraid to change um and are too stuck in their ways.
54:40
The industry is changing whether they wanted to or not. So you got to get on board at some point,
54:45
right? Uh my one of my mentors has a saying that uh comfort is a dream killer. So to
54:54
your point, those parks that are closing down because they’re not willing or open to change, right? It’s super important.
55:00
I mean, we have to be changing as people in the industry. We do. I’ve been I’ve been very lucky because I’ve I’ve had a a mentor
55:07
throughout my life and and Mr. Ellis, Jeffrey Ellis, the the CEO of the brand
55:13
and the company, he’s been about change from day one. He’s always been about
55:19
things have got to evolve. Um, and he’s always been supportive of that. Whether
55:25
it was the introduction of of oxygen and ads into our industry, he was the
55:31
individual, you know, raising the red flag and the banner and pushing that evolution
55:37
because he realized long ago and instilled that into all of us. You have to evolve. Doesn’t matter how good your
55:45
product is, it’s got to continually improve or you will get passed by. Yeah,
55:51
I agree. Well, I’m gonna ask you this last question. All right. Scuba diving. I love scuba diving.
55:58
What is it? You scuba diving, skydiving, or or are you jumping out of planes? I hear I am. I I I love the thrills.
56:05
Kiteboarding, skydiving, scuba diving, anything and all thing extreme sports.
56:11
I’m in. And a big family. 19. Yeah. Nieces and nephews.
56:16
Yeah, we’re racking them up. So, I have 18. A new one just actually announced
56:21
last week. So, we have 19 on the way. So, I’m a big family guy. Luckily, most
56:27
of those have been lifeguards. So, I’ve been able to staff many of pools just from my own family over the years.
56:33
I love that. And moving a legacy brand forward. Yeah. is it’s a
56:39
it’s big uh big shoes that I’ll never be able to fill, but luckily we’ve created a culture and a team uh on a global
56:47
scale that is willing to take up that banner and that challenge and we are excited to do it because it’s it’s more
56:54
than work for us. It’s it’s all of our it’s our lives. It’s our passions. It’s who we are. So, yeah. Well, thank you so much for being
57:00
here and for your time and all that you’ve shared with us and and I know I’m going to be better after this
57:06
conversation. So, I hope the audience feels the same way. Well, I appreciate uh you very much and
57:13
thank you for having me and hopefully we can do this again sometime. Yeah, I hope so, too. All right. Thank you.
57:19
Thank you. We’re entering a new era. An era where destinations are designed for emotion, engineered for scale, measured
57:26
for revenue, and amplified globally. The parks that thrive won’t be the loudest, they’ll be the most intentional. Because
57:33
experience is no longer a decoration. It’s a strategy. And strategy doesn’t
57:38
stop at marketing. It extends into infrastructure, into engineering, into partners that help you choose what’s
57:46
possible to build. That’s why conversations like today and firms like Water Technology Inc., who are
57:52
engineering the next generation of aquatic experiences, matter. The future isn’t just filmed. It’s built to every
57:59
operator, engineer, marketer, and visionary watching. The next decade of
58:04
the industry is being designed right now. Make sure you’re building it on purpose. I’m Sandra and this is Live. If
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this conversation resonated with you, subscribe to Live with Sandra. We bring together leaders building the future of
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