Chapter 1: Hook & Intro: The Emotion of Fear 0:04 4 seconds And we are live. 0:06 6 seconds Before we jump in today, I need to know something from everyone who is watching. 0:12 12 seconds Today’s guest says he can’t live without coffee, horror, and vodka in that exact order, which honestly feels like a 0:21 21 seconds pretty solid business plan if you’re planning something during the haunted season. So, what I want to hear from you 0:29 29 seconds guys today is this. What is one thing that you can’t live without when you’re working on a creative project? Is it coffee? Is it music? Is it a whiteboard? 0:40 40 seconds Is it chaos? 0:42 42 seconds Drop it in the comments. And while you’re there, tell me, what is the single best or most terrifying haunted 0:51 51 seconds attraction you’ve ever experienced? I want names. I want locations. I want to 0:57 57 seconds know which haunt still lives rentree in your head years later. Because today 1:06 1 minute, 6 seconds we’re talking about something that I think the haunt industry understands better than almost anyone else. Emotion. 1:15 1 minute, 15 seconds The best attractions don’t entertain us. 1:18 1 minute, 18 seconds They make us feel something. And the very best haunted attractions understand that fear isn’t really about the scare. 1:26 1 minute, 26 seconds It’s about anticipation. It’s about storytelling. And it’s about creating a moment where people that people will 1:34 1 minute, 34 seconds remember long after they leave. And that’s exactly where we’re going today. 1:42 1 minute, 42 seconds [music] 1:51 1 minute, 51 seconds What the 1:53 1 minute, 53 seconds [music] 2:06 2 minutes, 6 seconds [music] 2:12 2 minutes, 12 seconds [music] Chapter 2: Sponsor Spotlight & The Future of Experience Economy 2:20 2 minutes, 20 seconds All right, welcome to Live with Sandre. 2:21 2 minutes, 21 seconds I’m your host, Sandra Shannon, CEO of Gatemaster Technology. And before we jump in, I want to thank our sponsor, Gatemaster. At Gatemaster, we work with 2:31 2 minutes, 31 seconds attractions of all types, from family entertainment centers to theme parks to seasonal events and haunted attractions. 2:38 2 minutes, 38 seconds One of the things that we’ve learned is that guest experience, guest experiences begin long before the first scare, ride, 2:45 2 minutes, 45 seconds or interaction. It begins at the customer’s discovery. It begins during the ticketing purchase. It begins at 2:52 2 minutes, 52 seconds check-in. And when operations are seamless, create creators can focus on creating 2:59 2 minutes, 59 seconds unforgettable experiences because great technology doesn’t replace great storytelling. It supports it. 3:08 3 minutes, 8 seconds And today’s conversation is all about creating experiences people can’t stop talking about. And 3:15 3 minutes, 15 seconds before we get started, a quick shout out to all of our podcast listeners joining us from around the world. And if you’re 3:22 3 minutes, 22 seconds watching us on YouTube, make sure to like, subscribe, and follow our new Live with Sandre YouTube channel as we’re 3:30 3 minutes, 30 seconds continuing to bring you more content and talking to more people who are shaping the future of experience economy. Chapter 3: Introducing Norman Gidney & The Horror Buzz Journey 3:42 3 minutes, 42 seconds So, let’s talk about today’s guest. Today, I am joined by Norman Gidney. 3:48 3 minutes, 48 seconds Norman is the owner and creator of Horror Buzz and a creative producer with root deep roots in the themed 3:55 3 minutes, 55 seconds entertainment. He’s been attending themed park haunts and haunted attractions since he was six years old, 4:02 4 minutes, 2 seconds giving him a lifetime of experience studying what makes fear memorable and what makes immersive storytelling work. 4:11 4 minutes, 11 seconds He’s also built Horror Buzz into one of the most recognized voices in horror media, scaling the platform to more than 4:21 4 minutes, 21 seconds 15 million views through a deep understanding of audience connection and emotional storytelling. I 4:29 4 minutes, 29 seconds need you on my team. I need 15 million views. That’s amazing. Norman also specializes in something I love talking 4:37 4 minutes, 37 seconds about. Bringing creative vision, bringing together creative vision with technical execution because great ideas 4:45 4 minutes, 45 seconds only matter if they can actually be delivered. 4:50 4 minutes, 50 seconds So, let’s welcome Norman to live with Sandra. 4:53 4 minutes, 53 seconds Ah, sorry I had to do it. [laughter] How are you? 4:59 4 minutes, 59 seconds I’m good. You know, sometimes before like the pre-show conversation that I have with people, I’m like, and I didn’t say this to you, which is funny, but I’m 5:07 5 minutes, 7 seconds like, hey, next time I see you, we’re going to be live, so don’t be picking your nose. [laughter] Oh man. 5:14 5 minutes, 14 seconds And some people love to hear that and some people look at me like, why would I do that? [laughter] But but I I definitely like like how you 5:23 5 minutes, 23 seconds you came to the stage, Norman. But excellent. Was that okay? It was it was phenomenal. 5:29 5 minutes, 29 seconds Okay. I just want to make sure I’m a little embarrassed, but you know, but um yeah, I’m I’m so happy to be here and be talking with you, Sandra, and uh 5:38 5 minutes, 38 seconds yeah, I mean, and talking, of course, about my favorite thing, which is horror and themed entertainment. So, 5:46 5 minutes, 46 seconds well, I love I love the uh the idea of coffee, horror, and vodka. I I mentioned that. 5:53 5 minutes, 53 seconds [laughter] 5:53 5 minutes, 53 seconds I always say I mean okay I always say that that uh vodka is my lover but coffee is my rock. So so you know but of 6:02 6 minutes, 2 seconds course there’s so many other there’s so many other things that that you know I rely on to to work and to get creative. 6:11 6 minutes, 11 seconds I mean music um all those other things you know uh and sometimes chaos like you were talking about. But 6:18 6 minutes, 18 seconds yeah I got a lot of chaos on my side. I recently though found out I switched to uh champagne because I found out it was keto. 6:27 6 minutes, 27 seconds Oh, champagne’s keto. 6:30 6 minutes, 30 seconds It has to be brute, right? Like the brute. 6:32 6 minutes, 32 seconds Yeah, it has to be. Yeah, but yeah, champagne is the only thing I don’t like. Uh yeah, I mean it’s not like my favorite, but I 6:40 6 minutes, 40 seconds I have this I have this rule now that I never say no to free champagne. 6:45 6 minutes, 45 seconds No, no, that’s fair. That’s absolutely fair. 6:47 6 minutes, 47 seconds And so, you know, that means celebration, right? Usually it’s it’s celebrating which which is a big part of my personal motto 6:56 6 minutes, 56 seconds is you know always be celebrating and very grateful to have you here to celebrate you. So, you know, I want to Chapter 4: First Scares: Finding Fun in the Fright 7:03 7 minutes, 3 seconds jump right into this, you know, the autonomy of an effective haunt. And I know that in the bio we mentioned that 7:11 7 minutes, 11 seconds you’ve been going to these haunts for most of your life, which I don’t know how you’ve done because I can barely get through them. 7:19 7 minutes, 19 seconds Really? 7:20 7 minutes, 20 seconds Yes. That’s why I was wondering if you met my sister. You know, you mentioned you meet you met some of my team at Epic and my sister is a huge fan. Yeah. 7:28 7 minutes, 28 seconds Like a huge fan. and and a lot of why I’ve been involved in haunts is because of her and I’m very grateful for that. 7:35 7 minutes, 35 seconds But like my heart cannot take the jump scares anymore. [laughter] Well, um yeah. Yeah, I’ve been I 7:44 7 minutes, 44 seconds actually uh have been going to like you said theme park haunts uh since I was six. I went to not scary farm. Uh I I was born 7:53 7 minutes, 53 seconds in Orange County, you know, and I I right between Disneyland and Knots, you know. 7:58 7 minutes, 58 seconds Yeah. So like I I was always at either one of those. Um and sometimes Magic 8:05 8 minutes, 5 seconds Mountain. Um but yeah, so this it was it was only a six-year-old event at that time. Yeah. 8:12 8 minutes, 12 seconds You know, and so we went and it was scary, but I liked it. It was like a fun scary, you know. 8:21 8 minutes, 21 seconds Yeah. 8:22 8 minutes, 22 seconds And um but my my love for horror actually started when I was five, 8:31 8 minutes, 31 seconds um when uh my crazy aunts and cousins took me to see Halloween at the drive-in when it came out. 8:37 8 minutes, 37 seconds And um that was the first time that I recognized 8:44 8 minutes, 44 seconds it that scary could be fun. Like you felt this tension, but you were 8:50 8 minutes, 50 seconds okay. And it was funny watching it. I really connected with the kids in the movie, not the babysitters, you know. 8:56 8 minutes, 56 seconds And so I’m like, “Oh, that’s the good kid and the good babysitter.” And, you know, it just it was really interesting. 9:02 9 minutes, 2 seconds So then, you know, the next year I was at Scary Farm and realized there was fun to it, you know. Yeah. 9:10 9 minutes, 10 seconds And a way to experience, you know, explore boundaries like that. 9:13 9 minutes, 13 seconds Yeah. I love that. I actually grew up in Southern California myself. My dad, you know, my dad and both my parents are Californian and my dad always tells this 9:22 9 minutes, 22 seconds story about Knottberry Farm when they first like I think it or not scary farm, right? Totally. 9:28 9 minutes, 28 seconds I think it was the first year that they had opened that and there was only one weekend. 9:34 9 minutes, 34 seconds Yeah. And it was back in like it had to have been in the late 70s, right? 9:40 9 minutes, 40 seconds It was 73 when they 73. Okay. Because he’s he always talks about how he was wearing these like platforms. 9:45 9 minutes, 45 seconds [laughter] 9:46 9 minutes, 46 seconds and he got scared and he was running through one of the attractions and he fell and he was trying to get away from the haunted actors, right? And and he’s 9:55 9 minutes, 55 seconds he’s in these big old platforms and bell bottoms and he’s telling this he tells this story all the time. So, I just had to bring that he’s probably going to kill me for saying that. 10:04 10 minutes, 4 seconds That’s so awesome. [laughter] So awesome. I used to I used to wear boots to Magic Mountain so I could get on the big rides because I’m a 10:10 10 minutes, 10 seconds Yeah. you know. Um but yeah, I and it’s so funny because those are the memories 10:18 10 minutes, 18 seconds you take away, you know, it’s like, “Oh my gosh, I was such a fool and oh, you know, I was so terrified.” But well, or even in like my dad’s case, 10:26 10 minutes, 26 seconds he’s passing it on like it’s one of my favorite stories he tells. Yeah. Yeah. Chapter 5: The Anatomy of an Effective Haunt: Audience, Distraction, & Throughput 10:30 10 minutes, 30 seconds You know, it’s it’s things that that you pass along. And you know that kind of like brings me to my first question big 10:38 10 minutes, 38 seconds question for you and that is like you know what’s the single most important element that you that you know truly 10:46 10 minutes, 46 seconds transforms a basic scare into something that is truly memorable a truly memorable experience. 10:54 10 minutes, 54 seconds Know your audience. Yeah. 10:56 10 minutes, 56 seconds If you’re if you’re a hunk creator you have to know your audience and you have to know how far you can push it. Um after that a really good surprise or a 11:05 11 minutes, 5 seconds really good distraction, you know, and then a surprise. Um because, you know, uh it it it’s again 11:15 11 minutes, 15 seconds horror is all about safely exploring those boundaries. And um I can remember 11:22 11 minutes, 22 seconds one year uh Nuts also does this really cute thing called Not Spooky Farm for kids. And you know, it’s all Peanuts 11:30 11 minutes, 30 seconds characters and you know, trick-or-t treat trails and um they had this pumpkin that was a walkthrough pumpkin 11:37 11 minutes, 37 seconds fully open, you know, and but it had some little spooky noises in it. And I was holding my niece at the time and, 11:46 11 minutes, 46 seconds you know, I was walking through slowly and she was a little scared, but it was just enough, you know, but it’s like all the other older kids are like, “Yeah, this is just playtime, you know.” Yeah. 11:58 11 minutes, 58 seconds So, that was to me really an interesting look at, oh, okay, that’s her level, you 12:05 12 minutes, 5 seconds know, and now now she’s watching, you know, trickor treat and all the fun stuff. And um 12:12 12 minutes, 12 seconds so, so yeah, it’s first knowing your audience and and knowing what’s going to scare them and how far you can push it. 12:19 12 minutes, 19 seconds Yeah. Yeah. Then if you’re that, you know, going for it and I do think it’s really interesting 12:26 12 minutes, 26 seconds because I I’ve I’ve done a few shows on on haunted attractions, all different types, right? Um, and one of the things 12:33 12 minutes, 33 seconds that is always surprising to me is, and I appreciate because even though I say like I’m not somebody who likes to go to haunted attractions, I did go with 12:40 12 minutes, 40 seconds Ayappa to not scrape farm had this like back of the house tour that we did and they were nice enough to turn the lights 12:47 12 minutes, 47 seconds on for some of us that were afraid [laughter] to go in there. 12:52 12 minutes, 52 seconds And it was still scary, right? Like because the this the stuff that they’re doing is so incredible. And it was it was really amazing to learn about the 13:00 13 minutes things that you’re going to talk about today with regards to storytelling and how they came up with the haunt and and what they were doing to 13:08 13 minutes, 8 seconds it that understanding that there was a story that was being told, but also, you know, I’ve had uh I had I 13:16 13 minutes, 16 seconds had a I had someone on the show was talking about how there is kind of a psychology a little bit behind scaring 13:23 13 minutes, 23 seconds people too, right? like you’re saying like there’s an order of how we want to scare people, right? And I wonder um from your 13:32 13 minutes, 32 seconds from your perspective, you know, what separates a a you know, a jump scare from being 13:41 13 minutes, 41 seconds something that people forget about or just like remember for years to come. 13:47 13 minutes, 47 seconds So, and maybe it’s not just the jump scare, but you know, you’ve got that what you’re asking. What’s the difference between just a throwaway jump 13:55 13 minutes, 55 seconds scare and a really good Yeah. Like what gets people surprised. Surprise. Because um perfect 14:04 14 minutes, 4 seconds example is like a lot of times when I take people to a haunt for the first time, they’re like, you know, I don’t 14:11 14 minutes, 11 seconds know if I can do this, you know, and we go through the first couple of haunted houses and they’re jumping at everything 14:18 14 minutes, 18 seconds and they’re terrified. Um by the end of the night though, they they can kind of spot where the scares are going to come 14:27 14 minutes, 27 seconds from and they’re they’re not as afraid, you know. So, the the ones that really 14:34 14 minutes, 34 seconds get you, I still have to say it’s it’s a really good distraction and a really good surprise. Um, yeah. 14:41 14 minutes, 41 seconds You know, the ones that you don’t see coming. Um, and this the the worst thing about that is that 14:47 14 minutes, 47 seconds that now it’s very rare for me to to scream, but when it happens, oh, it’s a good feeling. 14:56 14 minutes, 56 seconds Yeah. Yeah. 14:57 14 minutes, 57 seconds Well, you know, when I was at that back of the house tour and the lights were on, I could see the most worn down parts 15:04 15 minutes, 4 seconds of the haunt were where the actors were Yeah. 15:10 15 minutes, 10 seconds waiting, right? It was always where the actors were waiting, which, you know, for me was good to see because I I I 15:17 15 minutes, 17 seconds kind of like breaking down the, you know, for me to get through it, I have to know like I’m gonna get through this. You know what I mean? 15:25 15 minutes, 25 seconds Yeah. Well, yeah. you’re break you’re you’re see you’re approaching it from a an analytical standpoint and trying to 15:32 15 minutes, 32 seconds break it down to something that you enjoy. 15:35 15 minutes, 35 seconds Yeah. And so that was a really that was a really interesting thing but and you know it also like reinforced the idea that there’s so much happening behind 15:43 15 minutes, 43 seconds the scenes including you know the storytelling and the technical execution. 15:50 15 minutes, 50 seconds Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s it’s it’s interesting to see how um you know, just speaking in particular of not scary 15:59 15 minutes, 59 seconds farm, uh it’s it’s really interesting to see how their haunted houses or they 16:06 16 minutes, 6 seconds call them mazes. The mazes have evolved there from from and and have become a lot more sophisticated. 16:14 16 minutes, 14 seconds Um, and and part of that is is because the audience is more sophisticated, but you know, it’s it it’s just fascinating 16:23 16 minutes, 23 seconds because I mean, the the first the first haunt or the first maze that Knots ever did uh was just uh the Chilling 16:30 16 minutes, 30 seconds Chambers, I think it was. Um, but it was just a simple haunt, you know, with scary little scenes. And now they’re 16:39 16 minutes, 39 seconds telling full stories with stories and, you know, it’s it’s It’s pretty impressive. 16:45 16 minutes, 45 seconds And animatronics, they had this when I was there, they one of the tours that I went on, it was they had this gigantic spider. Widows, you know. 16:54 16 minutes, 54 seconds Yes. Widows. That’s That was Daniel Miller’s maze. 16:58 16 minutes, 58 seconds Yeah. It was like I can’t even imagine something scarier, you know, with the the 17:05 17 minutes, 5 seconds I don’t want to say old people with the residents of an assisted living facility. That’s [laughter] 17:14 17 minutes, 14 seconds and the spiders. I mean, I can’t think of anything like scarier to combine. Like, who thought of that? 17:21 17 minutes, 21 seconds Well, that was Daniel and I was like, that man is is a genius. Um, he he is 17:28 17 minutes, 28 seconds one of the sweetest teddy bears of a man. Um, but deep inside that brain of his are some dark things. um you know 17:38 17 minutes, 38 seconds like and he gets he he gets to the really disturbing stuff and he’s one of the few uh designers that that can 17:45 17 minutes, 45 seconds really pull that off. He gets to like the the primal stuff like Yes. 17:50 17 minutes, 50 seconds the elderly and spiders and you know and them bursting out of you know an old lady’s stomach or you know it’s like oh 17:59 17 minutes, 59 seconds god wild. Yeah. But you know it’s he’s great. 18:03 18 minutes, 3 seconds Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, and that kind of, you know, makes me think about, you know, how do designers like that, 18:10 18 minutes, 10 seconds you know, bridge the gap between creative vision and the operational reality, you know, without losing the core of that experience, right? Because 18:19 18 minutes, 19 seconds that’s a lot. 18:21 18 minutes, 21 seconds Oh, it’s tons. And that is um I mean really that’s that’s 18:29 18 minutes, 29 seconds the eternal question with Hans. I mean like you know balancing throughput and effectiveness you know it’s it’s it’s 18:38 18 minutes, 38 seconds really hard um and you know recently over the past I guess 10 to 15 years um 18:47 18 minutes, 47 seconds immersive entertainment has tried to really you know take it to the next level by um 18:56 18 minutes, 56 seconds putting you inside of you know inside of a a a a horror play, Delusion. Um, I don’t know if you’ve heard of Delusion, 19:04 19 minutes, 4 seconds but it’s it’s it’s amazing. John Braver created this um this brilliant way to 19:12 19 minutes, 12 seconds tell a story and guide a group of say, you know, 10 people per audience through a scene, you know, with stunts and lighting and in in an existing place. 19:25 19 minutes, 25 seconds um you know and they they’d find a structure they build a story around it and then you know they’d cycle people through and you know it it it is the 19:34 19 minutes, 34 seconds closest thing you’ll ever feel to being in a horror film you know and there’s even like score 19:42 19 minutes, 42 seconds but the and very effective but the problem is that it’s also very expensive because you have lower throughput um 19:51 19 minutes, 51 seconds than say a maze at scary farm or a haunted house at HHN and the pro but the 19:58 19 minutes, 58 seconds problem there is you know when the line is not managed properly you get the conga line and you know and you just 20:07 20 minutes, 7 seconds have the blackouts go through go you know so then that ruins the scare so there’s Chapter 6: Balancing Throughput and Creative Effectiveness 20:14 20 minutes, 14 seconds you know there’s there’s you’re always trying to find that balance of throughput and effectiveness yeah and you know for operators that 20:22 20 minutes, 22 seconds might be watching today where do you and I’m assuming this is it, but is this where you most commonly see like the 20:28 20 minutes, 28 seconds creative concepts breaking down during implementation of a to me? 20:35 20 minutes, 35 seconds Yeah. I mean, I thought you were asking the group. 20:37 20 minutes, 37 seconds [laughter] 20:38 20 minutes, 38 seconds No, I’m Well, kind of. Yeah. I mean like and the other thing too is like if if um 20:46 20 minutes, 46 seconds you know if there’s a sudden stop or a backup or something like that you’re just standing there and the poor the poor actor is like cycling through their 20:55 20 minutes, 55 seconds scares espec this happens a lot at HHN because they have a lot of push button scares where you know they press a button and loud noise and lighting and 21:03 21 minutes, 3 seconds you’re like you’re just stuck there and this you’re like [laughter] you know just waiting for things to happen. So that can that will kill it. 21:10 21 minutes, 10 seconds Yeah. Um, I mean, I’ve been stuck on the uh Haunted Mansion where you’re watching the same scene over and over and over again. 21:19 21 minutes, 19 seconds Yeah, same same same principle. Um, so one of one of my favorite haunt designers, 21:27 21 minutes, 27 seconds bar none, is uh Johnny Plague of Plague Productions and or John Cook rather. Um, 21:34 21 minutes, 34 seconds he’s going to kill me. John Cook is uh he’s he’s easily one of the most creative 21:42 21 minutes, 42 seconds uh haunt designers that I know and he is he is brilliant at Chapter 7: Case Study: The Genius of Johnny Plague’s “Paranormal Inc.” 21:52 21 minutes, 52 seconds reaching that balance. Um the very first maze that he ever designed for not scary 21:58 21 minutes, 58 seconds farm was called Paranormal Inc. And it was, you know, the same the same usual 22:05 22 minutes, 5 seconds thing, an abandoned asylum. But the gimmick was that there was this team going in there to try to record like a ghost adventure type thing. 22:14 22 minutes, 14 seconds And you know, then of course things go horribly wrong and you have to make your way through the asylum. But what he did 22:22 22 minutes, 22 seconds that was so fascinating is he figured out number number one, he figured out a way to tell a story effectively. 22:29 22 minutes, 29 seconds Secondly, He found a way to keep throughput very high. He had, you know, 22:38 22 minutes, 38 seconds this big show scene at the very beginning and then everything goes wrong and then the guests are, you know, 22:46 22 minutes, 46 seconds pushed into one one of two paths. Like there are separate tracks, you know, and then further along in the maze, uh, the 22:54 22 minutes, 54 seconds paths join and then, you know, you finish it. But it was just a brilliant way to increase throughput, to give a a 23:04 23 minutes, 4 seconds really big punch at the beginning of it, tell a story and repeatability because then you wanted to see what the other side did, you know. 23:12 23 minutes, 12 seconds So he was he Yeah, that was it. That was his first. But, you know, he’s he’s continued to tell amazing stories with Chapter 8: The Secret Artistry of Haunt Actors & Character Building 23:21 23 minutes, 21 seconds with his mazes. So, well, and you know, speaking of stories, one of the things that really surprised me because I’ve had a few like 23:28 23 minutes, 28 seconds longtime haunted actors on this show is how much even they put into this storytelling and the work that’s going into them 23:37 23 minutes, 37 seconds developing these characters that play into the stories and and like we just think they show up and scare people and that’s not even 23:45 23 minutes, 45 seconds that’s not the case at all. Right. I mean, I don’t think that I’m sure that somebody out there might. 23:50 23 minutes, 50 seconds Well, some the passive the passive haunt goers would be like, “Oh, okay.” And then they think, “Okay, that’s fine.” No, but like you were saying, haunt 23:59 23 minutes, 59 seconds haunt actors are they have to be so good at so many disciplines. Yeah. 24:05 24 minutes, 5 seconds You know, a lot of times they have to be good with makeup, you know. Uh, and you guys don’t forget to put on your eye black. Just just make 24:14 24 minutes, 14 seconds sure. That’s just a reminder. Um, but they have to be good at makeup. They have to be very good at improv. They 24:21 24 minutes, 21 seconds have to be good at timing. Um, sometimes they have to be good at crowd control, you know, or you know, you know, getting 24:30 24 minutes, 30 seconds into the psychological aspect of a scare. Um, and there’s a lot going on. 24:35 24 minutes, 35 seconds And that’s not to mention they build their characters. 24:38 24 minutes, 38 seconds you know, most of the haunt actors um that get shoved into a corner at at a uh you 24:47 24 minutes, 47 seconds know, inside of a haunted house, they have a story. They build a story that really helps them to 24:55 24 minutes, 55 seconds create an effective scare and it’s so much fun. I think that’s important for people to understand because it changes it so much, you know, 25:04 25 minutes, 4 seconds when you think that it’s it it what an art it is to do all of this. 25:11 25 minutes, 11 seconds Yeah. You know, and I think that’s where the biggest appreciation that I’ve gained from not only working with haunts, but also talking to people who 25:20 25 minutes, 20 seconds are within the haunted industry is I’ve gained so much appreciation for the art that is behind it and like what you’re 25:27 25 minutes, 27 seconds talking about, the storytelling, but I’d love to talk about Horror Buzz for a minute. Chapter 9: The Strategy Behind Scaling Horror Buzz to 15 Million Views 25:32 25 minutes, 32 seconds I I know I I know that uh horror buzz is something that you’ve scaled to 15 million views, 25:40 25 minutes, 40 seconds which is incredible. I mean, that’s that’s an incredible milestone for anything. I mean, I just need you to afterwards teach me how to do that for 25:49 25 minutes, 49 seconds this show. [laughter] But I know that’s good luck and I know it’s a strategy and I’m curious, you 25:56 25 minutes, 56 seconds know, what’s the secret? Is it the community? is it community like but again circling back 26:04 26 minutes, 4 seconds to knowing your audience. Um, but you know, I before I even 26:11 26 minutes, 11 seconds started the site, I um I was part of the haunt and horror community, you know, and it’s one of the 26:20 26 minutes, 20 seconds best, you know, fan communities on the planet, you know, we are a weird bunch of misfit toys, 26:27 26 minutes, 27 seconds but, you know, we’re sincere, we’re fierce, we’re loyal. Um, and we embraced 26:35 26 minutes, 35 seconds the darkness. So, it it was just easy to build a site where I wanted to the big 26:43 26 minutes, 43 seconds goal obviously was to be able to cover as many haunts as I could because when I first started it was very um haunt 26:51 26 minutes, 51 seconds focused, just just, you know, uh, walkthrough haunts, theme park haunts, things like that. Um 26:59 26 minutes, 59 seconds but you know I also then expanded in covering film and covering books and things like that. Um but the idea was 27:09 27 minutes, 9 seconds you know all along to to to champion the artist and champion the community um in an extremely inclusive way too. So yeah that’s awesome. 27:19 27 minutes, 19 seconds Yeah. you know, and and and so I mean, what I’m hearing from you is that authenticity plays a big role in creating that that audience trust. 27:29 27 minutes, 29 seconds 100%. Yeah. 27:31 27 minutes, 31 seconds Because if if if you’re not I mean, they can spot BS in a second, you know? I 27:40 27 minutes, 40 seconds mean, and nobody I mean, nobody wants to waste their time with that. And um you know, we’re just we’re there to have 27:48 27 minutes, 48 seconds fun. We’re there to have a good scare, a good laugh, and support one another. Yeah. 27:54 27 minutes, 54 seconds So, no, I get that. I mean, I I once tried to sell Gate Master in ski resorts, and then the second they all found out I didn’t ski. 28:03 28 minutes, 3 seconds Yeah. Yeah. See, like a real thing, you know, like people want that authenticity. Yeah, for sure. 28:09 28 minutes, 9 seconds So, in a previous live, I thought I thought that would would be something cool to do and then I realized like I don’t understand these people, you know? 28:17 28 minutes, 17 seconds Well, I mean, you could try to ski, but if it’s just not you, I guess. I mean, I’m not against skiing. 28:24 28 minutes, 24 seconds I just Why are you against skiing, son? 28:26 28 minutes, 26 seconds [laughter] 28:30 28 minutes, 30 seconds For that matter. I mean, I listen, I do do corn raises. Okay. 28:36 28 minutes, 36 seconds And I No, those are great. Listen, I I I throw shade on no level of haunt. I I love it 28:45 28 minutes, 45 seconds all. I love the spooky stuff. I love the vintage stuff. I love the sweet stuff all the way to the 28:51 28 minutes, 51 seconds extreme stuff like full contact. I I love it. My sister just did one of those. Yeah. 28:59 28 minutes, 59 seconds Yeah. I don’t know if I can tell this story, but we’re trying to get this this business and they were like, “You got to try the Han.” And it’s one of the scariest ones. Pure darkness. 29:10 29 minutes, 10 seconds and and she went by herself and at the end he’s like, “All right, I could work with you.” [laughter] That’s really good job. 29:17 29 minutes, 17 seconds That’s awesome. I’m so proud of her. Chapter 10: Norman’s Most Terrifying Haunt Experience: Blackout LA 29:19 29 minutes, 19 seconds Yeah. I um I I I looked at the at the beginning of the the live stream. I saw um the question about the scariest haunt 29:27 29 minutes, 27 seconds and you posed it to the the audience. Um I would definitely love to tell you about mine. 29:33 29 minutes, 33 seconds It was terrifying. But wait, tell me. Can you talk can we talk about on the show or is it Let’s do it. 29:39 29 minutes, 39 seconds I mean, okay. So, uh, back in 2014, well, a little bit earlier, there was a, uh, brilliant guy named Josh Randall who 29:48 29 minutes, 48 seconds started a haunt called Blackout in New York. Blackout was a a thing that you had to go in alone. 29:56 29 minutes, 56 seconds uh it, you know, they could touch you, they could do whatever, you know, they could Anyway, so it finally made its way 30:01 30 minutes, 1 second out to LA and in two 13 or 14 um I I started going to it and I just fell in 30:09 30 minutes, 9 seconds love. I just loved it. But what they did in LA was uh special offseason haunts 30:17 30 minutes, 17 seconds for people who had already gone through the regular blackout, the already intense blackout. 30:24 30 minutes, 24 seconds And so it was like in spring um and you had to buy tickets and you know oh the new show is coming. Okay great. So you 30:32 30 minutes, 32 seconds had to go online and buy tickets and you know you buy your ticket and they one of the questions was you had to have a hotel or an apartment in like the 30:40 30 minutes, 40 seconds Burbank Hollywood area you know and it’s like okay that’s weird but so I you know was going to borrow my friend’s 30:48 30 minutes, 48 seconds apartment and um and so you buy the ticket and they’re like usually at that 30:55 30 minutes, 55 seconds point after you buy the ticket then they tell you where it is right because they don’t want Yeah. 31:02 31 minutes, 2 seconds People just showing up and you know they didn’t want that alone sounds scary. 31:06 31 minutes, 6 seconds Okay. Well, [laughter] buckle up, sister. So, they uh they you this for 31:12 31 minutes, 12 seconds this offseason show uh you you bought your ticket and they said, “Okay, cool. 31:17 31 minutes, 17 seconds There is no address. We’re coming to you.” And Yeah. And so the directions were to 31:26 31 minutes, 26 seconds um sit you had to sit in the room in the living room or wherever uh with your 31:33 31 minutes, 33 seconds back to the door the front door unlocked front door like in a certain window of time and they were going to come within between 8 and 10. 31:45 31 minutes, 45 seconds What? 31:46 31 minutes, 46 seconds You know it was it was terrifying. And uh so they so I was like, “Okay.” You 31:54 31 minutes, 54 seconds know, so I set everything up, got everything ready. Um and then sat, you know, sat 32:01 32 minutes, 1 second in the chair. Um then they knocked on the door. They opened it and they were like, “We’re leaving you this release 32:08 32 minutes, 8 seconds form. You have four minutes to sign it, you know, and then then the experience will begin.” So then, of course, I got up. I signed it real quick and then I 32:16 32 minutes, 16 seconds sat back down in the chair and they came in, they put sound cancelling headphones on my my ears. They shrink wrapped me 32:25 32 minutes, 25 seconds and you know that that wrap that they put on shipping. Anyway, then they like 32:33 32 minutes, 33 seconds they started interrogating me. They waterboarded me. They [laughter] threw they threw me into a bathtub with some potting soil. I mean it was like 32:41 32 minutes, 41 seconds what is happening? But it was so the the the the the 32:50 32 minutes, 50 seconds exhilaration of not knowing what the hell was going to happen next was was so 32:58 32 minutes, 58 seconds unnerving and scary and fun, you know, and of course with that there’s a safety word, you know, so if it was like, oh, 33:05 33 minutes, 5 seconds too much, then I wasn’t going to do that. Um but um yeah, it was just like that’s wild. 33:15 33 minutes, 15 seconds Wild and then they I’m not I’m not even going to tell you what happened next because it only got worse. But 33:21 33 minutes, 21 seconds [laughter] 33:22 33 minutes, 22 seconds but the the experience last water boarding it was it was a lot. Um but it was so 33:28 33 minutes, 28 seconds much fun and um and then they you know then they left. It was like about a 25minute experience. 33:36 33 minutes, 36 seconds Wow. Oh, and they what was really awful was they 33:41 33 minutes, 41 seconds [laughter] 33:42 33 minutes, 42 seconds they they left me on the floor face down and they’re like, “We’re always watching you. Don’t move.” You know, so I didn’t know if they’d left the apartment yet. 33:52 33 minutes, 52 seconds Like, and I was so afraid that if I hopped up, they would come and tackle me and like do a really good jump scare or something. But anyway, the point is, how long did you lay there? 34:03 34 minutes, 3 seconds [laughter] 34:06 34 minutes, 6 seconds I would say another 20 30 minutes cuz I was terrified that they would 34:13 34 minutes, 13 seconds were just waiting for me to show up, you know. Yeah. 34:16 34 minutes, 16 seconds Uh but but no, and after that then I you know locked the doors in the apartment and then you know I was like holy, you 34:25 34 minutes, 25 seconds know, but it was great. It was so much fun and you know now Josh is one of my dear friends. He’s so great. 34:33 34 minutes, 33 seconds That’s awesome. Yeah, he’s it was fun. 34:36 34 minutes, 36 seconds I mean, it it’s it’s a what what gets me about that experience is just the surprise. I mean, that’s truthfully, 34:44 34 minutes, 44 seconds that’s the same reason people are riding coasters and stuff, right? Like that’s exactly it. 34:49 34 minutes, 49 seconds It’s the it’s it’s the emotion behind it. It’s what we create for people. 34:56 34 minutes, 56 seconds And so that’s an incredibly wild experience. I don’t know if I’m going there. I might stick to my hay rides, but do that. Those are good, too. 35:05 35 minutes, 5 seconds I mean, I love those. I I every every Halloween I do a hayride and a and in and a and a corn maze. 35:14 35 minutes, 14 seconds And my kids are my kids are actually because they hang out with my sister, they’re getting to where they like they have an elevated threshold for for scare 35:22 35 minutes, 22 seconds than I do. But I love that for them, right? No, that’s great. Yeah. And that’s fine. your level of scared. That’s great. 35:30 35 minutes, 30 seconds Yeah. I’m just, you know, sometimes I used to be afraid of admitting that on here, but you know, I’ve been told I’ve been told 35:37 35 minutes, 37 seconds by all the everybody that you’re right, there is a level of scare that people can tolerate. 35:42 35 minutes, 42 seconds And I’m much more of a roller coaster kind of person, too, right? 35:45 35 minutes, 45 seconds Oh, cool. Have you been on X2 yet at Magic Mountain? 35:48 35 minutes, 48 seconds I haven’t been on X2, but Magic Mountain is the park that I grew up going to because I grew up Santa Clarita, if you you know. 35:56 35 minutes, 56 seconds Yeah. Yeah. 35:57 35 minutes, 57 seconds So, that was my that was my park. I loved Superman. I’m so sad about that one. Oh, I was there when it opened. Me, too. 36:06 36 minutes, 6 seconds Wow. That’s so cool. 36:08 36 minutes, 8 seconds That was that was a that was a a fun one. So sad to see that one go. But so I mean I do have my my own level of of adrenaline that I go for. 36:19 36 minutes, 19 seconds I like to say that I mean when people are like, “Oh, I don’t like horror movies. I don’t like scary things.” I’m like, “No, you do.” You know, you just 36:27 36 minutes, 27 seconds you just don’t know what it is. Like you were you just a second ago you were talking about Haunted Mansion. That’s horror. 36:34 36 minutes, 34 seconds That’s a that’s a haunted house. 36:36 36 minutes, 36 seconds Well, you know what? I did do a ghost I’ve done ghost hunts like legit. See? And that’s fun, too. 36:41 36 minutes, 41 seconds That’s an experience, right? Like just just like what we’re talking about here. Yeah. Chapter 11: Year-Round Horror Trends & Universal’s Las Vegas Unleashed 36:45 36 minutes, 45 seconds You know, but you know, you mentioned these guys were doing like an offseason haunt, right? And so, you know, that kind of like makes me think about what 36:53 36 minutes, 53 seconds some of what we’re seeing right now like with Universal, what was it? Universal Unleashed in Las Vegas. It’s running all year long. 37:01 37 minutes, 1 second Yes. Yes. 37:02 37 minutes, 2 seconds And, you know, I I I’m just curious kind of what you see in terms of those trends that are happening because I think we’re 37:09 37 minutes, 9 seconds seeing more and more people want to have these types of experiences all year long. What are you hearing? 37:18 37 minutes, 18 seconds I can I can tell you that that’s what I want. Yeah. 37:21 37 minutes, 21 seconds But but again, you know, horror books. Um but uh yeah, definitely. Um and there’s also 37:29 37 minutes, 29 seconds I have to give a shout out to Jason Egan um and his amazing escape rooms in Las Vegas as well. Um and Zombie Joe’s 37:38 37 minutes, 38 seconds Underground Theater opened uh uh Urban Death out there in Vegas. Um, and you 37:44 37 minutes, 44 seconds know the Jason’s escape rooms, uh, it chapters one and two saw, uh, and Blair Witch, those are top tier escape. 37:55 37 minutes, 55 seconds Those are the best we’ve ever been to, period. 37:58 37 minutes, 58 seconds Um, and, um, they’re amazing, but they’re repeatable and they’re horror themed entertainment and, um, he’s doing 38:06 38 minutes, 6 seconds great business there. Um, and you know, Unleashed is is is from what I hear is 38:13 38 minutes, 13 seconds doing okay. Um, they they’ve actually started doing these smaller pop-up 38:20 38 minutes, 20 seconds events as well, like for Christmas or for Easter or for and I think that’s a smart way to keep that model alive. Um, 38:28 38 minutes, 28 seconds I mean, I have my own opinions about certain things on at Unleashed, but Sure. I haven’t been yet. Oh, it’s it’s 38:36 38 minutes, 36 seconds very well done and the sets are exquisite. The you know um but just some really interesting ways of how they had 38:44 38 minutes, 44 seconds to adapt um a haunt experience with a bar and a restaurant and you know it was really some interesting stuff. 38:55 38 minutes, 55 seconds Uh but the the the Universal Classic Monsters haunted house there is just wow 39:02 39 minutes, 2 seconds it’s really good. All of them are good except for Exorcist believer. Sorry, that that was a stinker, but [laughter] oh well. Chapter 12: Roller Coasters vs. Haunts: Epic Universe & Epcot Debates 39:13 39 minutes, 13 seconds Well, you know, uh I did you made me think about when we were over at Epic. Yeah. 39:19 39 minutes, 19 seconds Right. They had that monsters area. Best ride on the planet. Yeah. 39:25 39 minutes, 25 seconds Best ride was the one where you could see the arm, you know, the ride. 39:30 39 minutes, 30 seconds Yeah, that was a really really cool one. And actually, I I some people I talked to didn’t like that they had the the ride 39:38 39 minutes, 38 seconds mechanics exposed, but I kind of enjoyed it. 39:40 39 minutes, 40 seconds Well, wait a minute. Are you talking about Monsters Unchained? 39:44 39 minutes, 44 seconds Is that the one where where uh uh you’re kind of on like it’s like a It’s a cuka arm. Yeah. And there’s four. 39:53 39 minutes, 53 seconds Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 39:54 39 minutes, 54 seconds Yeah. And so some people were saying they didn’t like to see the I’ve talked to people who didn’t like that the like the the ride was exposed, 40:02 40 minutes, 2 seconds right? because I think it’s very similar mechanics to like Harry Potter and some of those other rides, right? Yes. With a few key differences. Yeah. 40:09 40 minutes, 9 seconds Yeah. But you could see it and to me I I don’t know. I kind of feel like it like added to the experience like it added a 40:18 40 minutes, 18 seconds little scare being able more of a scare to be able to see the ride. 40:22 40 minutes, 22 seconds Yeah. Well, yeah. They they built it into the story. I mean, you you saw a model of the ride vehicle when Eigor was 40:29 40 minutes, 29 seconds telling you what was going to happen, and you know, it worked. 40:34 40 minutes, 34 seconds Yeah, for me it did. But yeah, did for me, too. Also, I really like the uh when the uh that tower 40:42 40 minutes, 42 seconds catches fire. That’s like my more than I like it. 40:47 40 minutes, 47 seconds It was so great. Uh when we were there that night, uh there was an actress there who was just phenomenal and she 40:56 40 minutes, 56 seconds could tell that I was really emotional because it’s I was in my my happy place. Yeah. And she’s like, “Yeah, you’re one of us. 41:05 41 minutes, 5 seconds You’re I’m going to call you bitters like that.” [laughter] Bitters, you know, I was like, “Okay, that’s awesome.” You know, so it she was great. 41:14 41 minutes, 14 seconds So shout out to her. I can’t I never reached out. But anyway, I mean, what an awesome job she used to do that all year long. 41:22 41 minutes, 22 seconds Oh, [sighs] she was so good. All of them were so good. That was such a neat night. 41:26 41 minutes, 26 seconds Yeah, it’s a neat night. Actually, I think I just saw this week. We’re going back celebrate. Really? Yeah. Which I’m not sad about. 41:34 41 minutes, 34 seconds I am not upset about that at all. 41:36 41 minutes, 36 seconds Yeah, I’m not sad about that. I’m gonna be there. So, I’m gonna You know what? The only thing I didn’t get to do that night was um Stardust Racers. 41:44 41 minutes, 44 seconds Oh my gosh. I did that twice. 41:47 41 minutes, 47 seconds Okay. So, our deal was which I shouldn’t have done by the way. Oh, why? 41:54 41 minutes, 54 seconds So, you know, because we are there on business, right? Sure. 41:57 41 minutes, 57 seconds And and so I went on the ride and then a friend of mine was like, “You want to ride it again? You want to ride it?” And I was like, “Sure, I’ll do it again.” Because I love that ride. Mhm. 42:04 42 minutes, 4 seconds Like there’s just something about Well, I told you I’m a coaster person, but then like where the two ride when the two co coasters come together and you’re like 42:12 42 minutes, 12 seconds almost dancing weightlessly in space with the other coaster and you can hear everybody screaming. It’s just such a cool 42:19 42 minutes, 19 seconds feeling. But after my second ride, uh my brain was like a little jumbled 42:28 42 minutes, 28 seconds because because somebody somebody introduced me to somebody and I was like, I don’t remember that. But I think it’s because I had like shaking baby syndrome after rid [laughter] 42:36 42 minutes, 36 seconds sh Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. It It’s a thing. 42:42 42 minutes, 42 seconds It can happen. But I mean it was I listen I I’ve I’ve I’ve ridden coasters more times than I should and I know that that’s a real thing, right? Like Yeah. 42:51 42 minutes, 51 seconds But it is a great ride. It’s probably one of my favorites. Probably my top three. 42:56 42 minutes, 56 seconds Uh Veloca Coaster is my favorite coaster. But in all fairness, I have not been on um Stardust. So this year, maybe together. 43:06 43 minutes, 6 seconds Yes. Let’s go on it together. I’ll totally do that. 43:08 43 minutes, 8 seconds Are you a back row or a front row person? 43:10 43 minutes, 10 seconds I’m wherever wherever I can, but I’ll go front. 43:13 43 minutes, 13 seconds Front. Well, back is where you get the most force. So, but but I’ll I’ll go anywhere for the first time. 43:18 43 minutes, 18 seconds I’ll go anywhere. I I mean, I’ll take any part of a a coaster. Cool. 43:23 43 minutes, 23 seconds I’m not afraid of of any part, but have you been on Guardians? Not to Guardians of the Galaxy at Epcot. 43:29 43 minutes, 29 seconds Yes, that’s my all-time favorite. 43:32 43 minutes, 32 seconds Okay. Very good coaster. Um, but I I have I have deep feelings about Epcot. 43:39 43 minutes, 39 seconds Um, I feel it’s lost lost its way. And that ride was so cynical. I just like the music, too. 43:47 43 minutes, 47 seconds Listen, once you’re on the ride and all the stuff is happening, that’s great. 43:52 43 minutes, 52 seconds But you know, but also the show building you can totally it spills the view. 43:56 43 minutes, 56 seconds Anyway, yeah. Anyway, I’m one of those people. Sorry. 44:00 44 minutes It’s all right. That’s why you’re here because you’ve got opinions that people like to hear, right? [laughter] I mean, maybe. I don’t know. But, um, 44:09 44 minutes, 9 seconds you know, I’m like, you know, I wrote that and I was like, can we just go on Living with the Land? Can we just go on Spaceship Earth? I miss I miss OG Epcot 44:18 44 minutes, 18 seconds where there was optimism and hope in the future and you know don’t get me right wrong I mean my one 44:25 44 minutes, 25 seconds of my favorite things at Epcot is just like the festivals and going around eating and drinking. Well, yeah. 44:31 44 minutes, 31 seconds Everyone loves that. [laughter] You know, as long that’s that’s my that’s my favorite part of it. But, um, yeah, I I 44:40 44 minutes, 40 seconds just really enjoyed that particular ride. And then I would say, like I said, Stardust Racers. We’re going to do it this year. Yep. I can’t wait. 44:48 44 minutes, 48 seconds It’s going to be so cool. Chapter 13: Connecting with Horror Buzz & Wrap-Up 44:50 44 minutes, 50 seconds Well, we’re approaching the end of the show, which I’m really sad about because I have a lot of I have a lot more questions for you. But what I think we 44:58 44 minutes, 58 seconds should do is you should come back maybe even around Yes. I would Oh my god, I would love to. 45:03 45 minutes, 3 seconds Yeah, let’s do it. Let’s do a special show just just for the the Halloween time. I think that would be really cool. And we can finish. 45:12 45 minutes, 12 seconds I would so love that. 45:13 45 minutes, 13 seconds Yeah, this was fun. And you know, I just want to make sure though that everybody watching, if they enjoyed this conversation and they enjoyed you, you 45:21 45 minutes, 21 seconds know, how is, you know, what’s the best way to connect with you and Horrorbuzz, learn more about what you’re doing. 45:28 45 minutes, 28 seconds Okay. Uh, well, obviously the website is horrorbuzz.com. 45:32 45 minutes, 32 seconds Um, but you can reach out to us on Instagram, you know, at horrorbuzz. Um, we still have an account on X, you know, 45:40 45 minutes, 40 seconds horror_buzz, Facebook. Um, you can just reach out info@ horrorbuzz, 45:48 45 minutes, 48 seconds you know, and just follow our crazy adventures, especially during the haunt season when Jeff and I do our 7-second reviews. Those are so much fun. 45:57 45 minutes, 57 seconds All right. Well, that’s even more reason why you got to come back in in October. I know. Okay. 46:02 46 minutes, 2 seconds Yeah. All right. I will make sure that Maria gets you back here. Okay. Oh, it’d be such a treat. Thanks. 46:08 46 minutes, 8 seconds Yeah. No, thank you. Thank you for being here and thank you for, you know, helping the audience understand that this conversation is so much more about 46:16 46 minutes, 16 seconds being scared and fear, but the emotions behind it, the community, the culture 46:22 46 minutes, 22 seconds behind it, you know, and and you know, I just think it’s cool stuff. I think it’s cool stuff. I I especially think it’s 46:31 46 minutes, 31 seconds cool the passion that so many people in the haunted attraction industry have for what they do. And so, thank you for letting us see some of that today. 46:40 46 minutes, 40 seconds Oh, you’re welcome. I I’m I come back anytime you want. 46:44 46 minutes, 44 seconds All right. Well, I’m I’m gonna take you up on that. 46:47 46 minutes, 47 seconds Okay. [laughter] I’ll see you on the other side. All right. Bye. Bye, Norman. 46:54 46 minutes, 54 seconds Well, that was a fun show. I really love um I really love having people like Norman on the show. First of all, I 47:02 47 minutes, 2 seconds mean, this is a great conversation. I really love the content and I also want to thank all of you guys for watching today. And whether you’re building a 47:11 47 minutes, 11 seconds haunted attraction, a theme park, a family entertainment center, a live event, the goal is always the same, to create experiences that people remember. 47:22 47 minutes, 22 seconds And that’s why at Gate Master, we believe technology should help operators deliver those experiences more effectively by removing friction and 47:30 47 minutes, 30 seconds improving the guest journey. Because the less time you spend fighting with 47:36 47 minutes, 36 seconds your operation, the more time you get to create magic or in this case create nightmares. So, thank you to everybody 47:44 47 minutes, 44 seconds for joining us live, to all of our podcast listeners around the world, and for everyone who has joined in on the 47:52 47 minutes, 52 seconds conversation, make comments, and if you’re watching on YouTube or wherever you’re watching, head over to YouTube and like and subscribe to our new Live