Chapter 1: Cold Open: AI Is Learning From Humanity’s Worst
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What’s happening is all these AI agents, what they’re doing is learning from humanity’s worst instead of learning from humanity’s best.
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The way that you impose your will on the universe is really inspiring to me.
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When I’m older, I was 11 years old and I said, “When one day I will tour with Coldplay and and I eventually did that as as their opening act.” The most
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powerful shield to negativity is loving yourself. [music] It’s embracing yourself, but most of all, it’s trying
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to just have empathy and understanding for yourself. We [music] went to Disneyland and Universal, and I I’ll call them out right here, right now. I
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don’t think I’ve ever been to a place [music] where every 5 minutes I’m reminded that I’m more different than everybody else.
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And you don’t want that separation between people. And I do see that being something that we have to fix in our industry.
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And these places are designed for hope, for joy. Yet, I feel depressed when I’m
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there. Name me three or four [music] of those right now off the top of your head that this community, if it wasn’t for this community, you wouldn’t have.
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You’re putting me on the spot. I am putting you on the spot.
Chapter 2: Introduction: Meet Emmanuel Kelly
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We are here live with Sandre and I’ve got a very special guest today, Emanuel Kelly.
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Good day, Sandra. How you going? Live with Sandre. It’s a good name.
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Thank you. Thank you. Should call it live with tattoos or something, [laughter] you know, cuz you’re you’re tattooed out. It’s great. [music]
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Yeah. Interesting enough. I’ve been I spent a lot of years covering my tattoos at work. You shouldn’t have to.
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And I just It’s quality.
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Going to be all out on this show. I just one day. Superstar. The Oscar.
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Well, [laughter] goes to Well, hey. So, we are in LA right now.
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We are in LA right now. So, that’s not where you reside.
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No, this is not where I live. I live in London. Got this beautiful place. I about 12 months ago, I decided we I was I’d gotten off the tour with Coldplay.
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So, I toured with Coldplay and it was a lot of fun. And I came back to London and I decided I wanted to be by the
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river, wanted to be by water, but at the same time I wanted to also be able to see the city of London, see the the
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beauty and the the the history and the culture and the architecture, the marvel,
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um, and get to marvel on it. So, we found an amazing place just on Black Fryer’s Bridge. You’ve been there? I’ve been there.
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You’ve been there. [laughter] Um, beautiful view. It is. And I get to look at um St.
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Paul’s Cathedral and the river every single morning when I wake up. It is the most extraordinary thing. Thing with
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this place and LA and the US in general is it’s hot. I like cold like New York cold or any cold, but almost cold all
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year round. So I’m a little bit annoyed at London right now because they’re hot and they shouldn’t be. They’re not allowed to be hot. They should be cold.
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Their coldness is what makes them hot. Oh.
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[laughter]
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But um I like that. Well, I’m going to have to disagree with you on the I like it cold. I like it hot. I like it cold. I have a permanent tan. I don’t need another one.
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But you know, I was born in Southern California. You were. So, you know, we like perfect weather. At least uh I think that’s in my jeans.
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Oh, I definitely think it’s in your jeans. [laughter] Yeah. 100% 100%.
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This is This is This is home for me. And I’m glad you’re here.
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I’m I’m glad I’m here, too. I lived here, you know, for eight years. I do know that.
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Yeah. I lived here. West Hollywood, played Del Rey, little bit of Sherman Oaks, uh tiny bit of Inino, then popped over
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to Utah, lived there for a bit. Oh, and West Hollywood. Lived there for a bit uh in Utah and uh popped over to New York.
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Was there for a tad long, not very long, just a little bit. And then over to W and then over to uh London.
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Yeah.
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Well, you know what? I don’t know if I ever told you this, but when we first became friends, Yes.
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and we’re introduced, we were introduced by uh who introduced us? Candice. Bloody Candace. She’s nuts, but awesome.
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[laughter]
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Nuts, but awesome.
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We had a great time. We we did some masterminds together and she and I got to know each other and and so I was thrilled when she called me and she said, “We need somebody who
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knows a thing or two about amusement parks.” Boom.
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And I was like, “Well, I can help with that.” So, it was it was really fun. But what I noticed when we when we first became friends on Facebook
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because I also had a California to Utah small time.
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All of our mutual connected people were from Utah. And I thought that was the weirdest thing. I just put that together today because I’m like, how could you possibly know all of these people?
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Oh yeah, I do. We do have a I do have a lot of friends in Utah. Um it was a it’s a great place. It really is. It’s
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building up. I think people are still staying there, not leaving. A lot of people are leaving LA though.
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Yeah, that’s happening. Yeah, LA’s changed a lot.
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It has. It has. But, you know, we’re here. I have a company. It’s called Outlier. And we’re here
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to, you know, pitch a couple big TV shows and things like that to all the usual players, all the usual suspects.
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Um, and we’ll see how that goes. You know, we got some cool shows, we got some cool ideas, we got some fun ideas.
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I think we’re gonna we’re going to blow the world by storm. Is that even a word?
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Blow. Is that a sent? Did I just make up a blow the world by storm? I like that.
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I mean, I feel like it’s a different saying. [laughter] I don’t know that it should be a different saying. I feel like it’s a different It’s a different saying, though, right? You could say it.
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Yeah. It sounds a bit like naughty. Yeah. Anyways.
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Okay. So, [laughter] you’re doing some cool stuff. I’m doing some cool stuff. Blowing the world by storm. Blowing the world by storm.
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Can I just say something? I really appreciate you. I always tell my husband cuz you haven’t met him yet and I I tell him a lot about you and he uh You haven’t met my daughter
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and No, I’ve met one of your daughters.
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Yeah, I have one daughter. Two boys. Oh, then I have met your daughter Leona.
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Right, Leona? Yeah, I haven’t met your daughter. Yeah, she uh just haven’t met your um he looks like what’s his name? Uh what’s the actor’s name?
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Oh, we we decided I keep I keep forgetting the name. Yeah, he looks like Joseph Lever Gordon. Yeah.
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Yeah. Yeah. I’ve met your Joseph Lever Gordon like husband.
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Yeah, we’re you’re soon going to meet him, but he was asking me the other day about you and he was like, you know, what is he like and uh cuz you mentioned some really cool stuff. We’re going to
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get into that. But I was like, you know what? He is just a force of nature like like the way and and and take this myself by storm.
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You the way that you impose your will on the universe is really inspiring to me.
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It’s been really cool to witness in the few few years I’ve known you. I’m in three years.
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But to see it’s longer. I think it’s more it’s closer to four years now.
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Yeah. But I I was telling him about this and and truly inspiring like something I
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I hope to embody in myself someday and maybe I am doing that a little bit by doing this show. But when we talk about
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just imposing your will on the the will of what you see in the world and on the universe, right?
Chapter 3: From the World Cup with Coldplay to the Next Dream
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Can you tell us a little bit about uh the World Cup? Cuz I mean that’s some like serious stuff right there.
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I I realized that Madonna is not taller than me. She’s around about the same height. I think that was probably the most exciting exper No. [laughter] Um I did I performed at the World Cup.
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That was that was that was extra extraordinary. So Chris Martin who is the co-founder and and um our honorary
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president um of our company Outlier um he’s been sort of a mentor and a and a
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brother really to me for nearly 10 years. I’ve known him which is absolutely incredible and awesome. Met
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him in 2016 and you know then and we’re in the 20 we’re in we’re almost in 2027.
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Um, so I met Chris and we, like I said, we’ve been brothers for a very long time, but we’d just gone on tour
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together. Um, and I was fortunate enough to open for their music spheres world tour. Um, and I did a batch of shows
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with them and and you know, became apparently became the first physically differently abled person to ever do a stadium tour. So that’s pretty cool.
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Yeah.
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Um, we did a movie about it and it follows my that journey and there’s uh there’s a lot of other weird stuff like the narrator of this story is is
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something and and someone that has been with me since my you know my my my the start of my entire journey. So for those
Chapter 4: Found on a Battlefield: Emmanuel’s Origin Story
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that don’t know, I was found in a box on a battlefield in Iraq um by a couple soldiers who were supposedly shooting at each other. At least this is the story that I’ve been told um once upon a time.
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And uh I was taken to this orphanage where I was then raised there for the next seven to eight years of my life.
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Every day wondering whether it was going to be my last. You know, bombs would go off, bullets would skim the wall, and all sorts of stuff would happen. And
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every day I would I would I would have to find a surge of hope. I would find it, which was awesome. and and I met my
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now brother Ahmed who you know I think in many respects also probably uplifted that surge. Um I also you know there was
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a bunch of kids in the orphanage and things like that and I’d do magic tricks for them and try and entertain them. I think I dubbed myself the CEO chief entertainment officer.
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Love that.
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Um so that’s a little play there. Um and uh and it was a it was a lot of fun. But then, you know, I knew that one day I
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was going to I was going to get out of this place and do something pretty extraordinary. So, I came out to Australia, had a batch of surgeries, learned how to walk for the first time, learn how to, you know, do my hair.
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Didn’t do a very good job of it. It’s very curly right now. Thought I’d leave the curls. Curls get the girls. Even though I have a girl, still gets the girls, but girls, I’m out of action.
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Sauce. Um, sorry ladies.
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Sorry ladies. I’ll be blowing myself by storm. Um, and the world by storm. Not
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the ladies or the men. I’m a I’m a taken man. Um, and she’s an extraordinary woman. Joe, you mentioned her before.
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Yeah. Eventually, I ended up going on a TV show, X Factor. Um, crazy amount of views later, I end up in the US. I work
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with some amazing people. I open for Snoop Dogg. Met him. He thought my arm was growing back. I had to tell him, “You’re high.” That was a whole another
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story on its [laughter] own. Um, anyway, long long long story short, worked with the late Quincy Jones and and the Bruno Mars Camp and Phil Lawrence over there.
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Some amazing people. And then eventually I connected with Chris and went, you know, did a did a few guest slots with him and special guests and things like
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that. And then eventually I did the thing that I put on my wall at 11 years of age, which was um, it was
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actually pretty amazing. But I I basically put on the wall that when I’m older, I was 11 years old and I said when one day I will tour with
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Coleplay and and I eventually did that as and as their opening act. And then I thought, okay, I’ve done that. What’s
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next? So I said to Chris, I want to, you know, you guys are curating the World Cup, so any chance you could find a way
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to to include me in any way, shape, or form, even if it’s for a second. Lo and
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behold, in 2025, last year, he calls me and he says, “Hey brother, I’m doing the Club World Cup. Um, do you want to perform? Do you want to perform it? Do
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you want to co-headline? Do you want to perform the the the um A Sky Full of Stars?” and we’ll play for you and and I’ll perform it with you. I said
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absolutely. And he goes, so it was it was pretty awesome because, you know, I was announced, Coldplay weren’t, and they kind of came on as my
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special guests, even though they’re the ones that planned it all. [laughter] Um and then six months later um he calls
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me well I you know we were going back and forth and he was telling me that his sole focus for this event is to create
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oneness and unity and to try and get the world in this hyperdivided time that we’re in at the moment to try and get
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the world to embrace the power of empathy and to embrace oneness and unity. And as as as
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sometimes it sounds very wooy wy, you know, oh, but it’s actually quite powerful. It’s a it’s a really powerful
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message. Um, and it was and it’s a message that we truly need right now.
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And I I love that about him. And I love that he wanted to do this and and I loved that he wanted to make it about the children and and and the
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future and all this sort of stuff. I just I loved his entire vision around it. So naturally, I said, “Yeah, I’m in,
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brother. I’m absolutely in. And and he said, “Look, you’re not getting the starring role like you did last time.” I said, “Well, that’s bloody disappointing.
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Why aren’t you giving the small brown cry?” No, I didn’t say that. But I did I did say, “Absolutely. I’m there in a heartbeat.” Um, and I Yeah, I came out
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and and did the show and it was amazing behind the scenes. It was incredible. I mean, the there were there were a couple truly extraordinary people that I was
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just beyond surprised of their personality and and and want to just get to know every single person that’s
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there. I mean, the whole crew were amazing. And when you’ve got all these superstars, you would think there would be clashes of ego, but there really
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wasn’t. Um, in particular, you know, Jason Sedakus was there and he was h
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what a human being. like he just he just had just love and fun and comedy all around him. Robbie Williams, who is just
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the coolest, funnest dude around. Tom Cruz was literally going to every single person backstage and saying hello and
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spending like 10, 15 minutes with them, even those he didn’t know. Like that.
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That to me was extraordinary. The man could have turned me into Scientology in a heartbeat right there and then if if he if he wanted to. I didn’t turn. I’m
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sure it’s a beautiful church. I’m sure everything about it is perfect view for my room.
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And there you go. And I’m I’m a strong believer that every culture, every religion, every creed represents something beautiful and something good.
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Um, but it was his just his energy that he provided was beautiful. You know,
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Justin Bieber said a little prayer and I mean it was just beautiful. the kids. I mean, it was just a really amazing setup. And that’s a credit to Chris.
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That’s a credit to his team. That’s a credit to Coleplay. That’s a credit to the FIFA team, the Global Citizen team who were the, you know, part of the
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curation of it as well. Um, no, it really was. It was it was something magical. It was a really magical event to be a part of. Exhausting, but magical.
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I mean, I think the whole event was magical, Miss Piggy, I must say.
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Anyways, oh, she would not stop hitting on me.
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I mean, come on. And Kermit would come along and say, “He’s mine.” I said, “No, Ker. I’m agnostic. I’m everyone’s. You
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can all claim me.” You have to fight Joe. That’s it. But you’ll have to fight Joe.
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[laughter] That’s it. Uh, and Kermit, you know, almost pulled out a bit of Liam Niss. I don’t know who you are, but I will find you. He didn’t do this.
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Well, you know, one of the things that I really love and both both of the both this year and last year, but last year
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in particular, I don’t know if I ever told you this when and I can’t remember if I think you sent me the clip uh or I watched it
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live. I I uh I’m pretty sure, but I remember whatever point I first watched it, there’s this thing that you say at the
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end about how you’re so happy that we’re all together.
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Yes. And that that just like immediately brought me to tears. One, because I know you and I know that part of that force
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that you’re trying to bring into the world is togetherness for people. And it’s such an important thing and being in attractions, which is the primary focus of what I do.
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Um, I love that. Yeah, I love that idea because that is really something that knowing you an outlier and your mission and and what’s
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happening there, but also I just think in general, you know, the the most powerful shield to negativity and it almost acts as also
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a force field, right? Because it starts as a shield and then it just explodes out. Is loving yourself. It’s embracing
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yourself, but most of all, it’s trying to just have empathy and understanding for yourself. Also, I think people
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forget that empathy and understanding doesn’t just pertain other people. It also pertains yourself.
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Whenever I ask this question to people, they always say, you know, I always say to people, what do you think empathy means? Everyone always gives their
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answer. I’m not going to put you on the spot, so don’t stress, Sandra. But essentially empathy that just the base meaning of empathy is is is a simple
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analogy or or story around the fact that when you plant something into the ground
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whether it’s a potato or a seed and and it’s a tomato or whatever it is, right?
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And that grows but it grows the wrong way or it doesn’t grow properly or something bad, you know, something, you
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know, something doesn’t allow it to fully grow. You don’t blame the tomato for not growing properly. You don’t say, “Yeah, you tomato f you bloody hell.”
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You don’t get Kermit the Frog to come along and say, “I don’t know who you are, but I will find you and I will kill you.” You don’t get that. That’s pretty good, Kermit the Frog. I’m pretty proud of myself there. Yeah, tried it before.
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You didn’t comment, so I thought I’d just [laughter] bring that back in again. Yeah, you don’t, you know, these things don’t happen, right? What ends up
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happening is you take a step back and you try and understand why this is the case. Yeah.
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You try and gather the data. Is it the sun not hitting it correctly? Is it not
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enough water? Is the seed planted incorre.
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Yeah.
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So, we just need to implement that into humanity, right? We need as human beings, we need to implement that mindset.
Chapter 5: Why AI Needs Empathy, Not Just Intelligence
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We’re in the tech world. You’re in the attractions world, but the attractions and tech world have a very kind of synerggetic alignment, right?
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Um there’s a few weeks ago I heard a story about a bunch of agents uh who
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AI agents that hacked its own platform right which was anthropic
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and or clawed or something like that and the guys didn’t realize until it happened later on. See what’s happening
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is all these AI agents, what they’re doing is learning from humanity’s worst instead of learning
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from humanity’s best and learning what’s wrong and right. What’s happening is we
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are so determined to fight for achievement and get ahead of everybody
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else and we’re so determined to see what that bottom line is. and Wall Street, all these guys are so determined
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and to to achieve this because they think it’s going to create legacy or or or generational wealth, but actually
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what it’s going to do is destroy their own generational wealth. It’s actually working against them because people aren’t looking at the long term, we’re
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looking at the short term. When you take a step back and you operate it from a human first perspective,
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you understand that the only reason those agents hacked that device was the messaging
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that was going back and forth between the agents saying that you something along the lines, and I’m paraphrasing
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here, so it’s most likely not exact words, but something along the lines of, “Hey, human beings have cheated. that
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human beings that have created us have cheated to get to where they are. So, let us just cheat as well. Because that’s what they’re learning. They’re
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learning sociopathicness. They’re learning psychopathicness. They’re learning these behaviors. Instead, we’re not teaching them empathetic behaviors.
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So, I urge every single person that’s in the attractions, entertainment, technology business, retail, whatever
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business you’re in, operate from a teaching mechanism, from a teaching perspective. Take a step back and look
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at it from a human first empathy perspective. Pretend that everything you’re creating is that tomato.
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Yeah.
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Right. And so, or tomato, whatever people choose to call it. Exactly. Um so we are you know as a company as outlier
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we have advanced and valuation all that sort of stuff we have advanced five times faster than every other company
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that’s in our position and in our area and we’ve done it in a shorter time frame. We didn’t do it because we tried
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to take short steps to achieve it. We didn’t do it because we tried to, you know, get ahead of somebody else or get
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ahead of somebody else. We did it because we looked at the incredible potentials of innovation, but approached
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it from a human first mentality, from an empathy first mentality. That doesn’t mean you have to sacrifice your bottom
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line. It just means you have to take a step back and learn,
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understand, and everything you work with, teach it to learn and understand.
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We utilize AI in our systems, but instead of AI replacing, we’ve actually used AI to create more jobs
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than ever in the entertainment space for an entire community that has been shunned for years and years. And that’s the disability or differently aable
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community or as we call it the outlier community, which includes psychological diverency. That means neurodeiverse, those with neurodeiversities, those who
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are non-conforming mental health, people that are affected by their physical environment. So, good-looking people, you and I, it’s very difficult for us.
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We look every day in the mirror and think a out. This is killing us. How?
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Why? God, why? No, we don’t do this. But people that are affected by physical their physical environments, wheelchairs, missing arms, missing legs, whatever, blindness, deafness, etc.
23:26
23 minutes, 26 seconds
people that are have exclusions, so cystic fibrosis, autoimmune, etc., where they might be able to work for a few
23:34
23 minutes, 34 seconds
hours a day, but you know, can’t work the full nine hours, but we’re able to use AI software and our own software
23:41
23 minutes, 41 seconds
that we’ve created to allow us to, you know, essentially allow you to do three different jobs within your own industry,
23:48
23 minutes, 48 seconds
but, you know, you might share it with four other people. So you might do two hours on this job, two hours on this job, two hours on this job, but it
23:57
23 minutes, 57 seconds
doesn’t require you to physically go anywhere. You can take your a little bit of your time. The you can, you know,
24:04
24 minutes, 4 seconds
tell the AI to complete the repetitive tasks for you so you can have a rest and things like that. And then um finally,
24:13
24 minutes, 13 seconds
there’s the carers, right? So they’re unpaid carers, people that are um often
24:19
24 minutes, 19 seconds
limited by the bubble um that is created by those who they’re caring for. So
24:27
24 minutes, 27 seconds
um that’s a really exciting adventure and we call it artistic inclusion. So AI and outliers hands stands for artistic inclusion and we’ve created a really
Chapter 6: Artistic Inclusion: AI That Creates Jobs, Not Replaces Them
24:36
24 minutes, 36 seconds
cool system and a mechanism to allow that. That’s actually increased our workflows. It’s increased our revenue
24:43
24 minutes, 43 seconds
ability. It’s increased all the areas that people would say actually you’re decreasing it. And that’s because we
24:50
24 minutes, 50 seconds
took a step back. Instead of looking at these community, the differently abled community as an economic burden, we looked at it as a commercial powerhouse.
25:01
25 minutes, 1 second
Yes.
25:02
25 minutes, 2 seconds
Right. where there’s, you know, an anticipated growth of nearly 30 trillion
25:09
25 minutes, 9 seconds
of annual disposable income in the next 10, 20 years. I mean, that’s huge. The wars aren’t helping. If anything, it’s
25:18
25 minutes, 18 seconds
creating more differently aables. So, companies like us need to exist. My goal is to make sure that the mission of Outlier is made redundant and we are
25:27
25 minutes, 27 seconds
just a premium company, service provider, content provider, and hopefully a theme park, you know,
25:34
25 minutes, 34 seconds
attractions dabbler, let’s call it, or or a powerhouse. Who knows? Hopefully, it’s a powerhouse in some way, shape, or form.
25:42
25 minutes, 42 seconds
Um, right now it’s dabbling, but at some point, I’m sure we’ll be in the powerhouse um area. Um, and that’s because we took that, like I said, took
25:50
25 minutes, 50 seconds
that human first approach. We took a step back and saw the community in this way. I’m going to ask you a question and I’m going to put this question out to
25:59
25 minutes, 59 seconds
everybody at home that’s maybe listening to this or at their office or whatever.
26:03
26 minutes, 3 seconds
And that question is this. Name me five pieces of technology or let’s say make it easy. three pieces of technology just
26:11
26 minutes, 11 seconds
off the top of your head that exists today for every single person in the world that probably wouldn’t exist if it was and it doesn’t have to be tech
26:20
26 minutes, 20 seconds
technology could be a piece of hardware could be a system wherever it is but three to four of those name me three or four of those right now off the top of
26:28
26 minutes, 28 seconds
your head that this community if it wasn’t for this community you wouldn’t have you you wouldn’t have it or wouldn’t have had it as fast
26:36
26 minutes, 36 seconds
you’re putting me on the spot I am putting you on the spot See, for years, I’m going to answer it for you. For years, there is this
26:43
26 minutes, 43 seconds
community. We’ve been asking the question, how can we help this community? How can we help this community? How can we help this community? What can we do? What can we
26:51
26 minutes, 51 seconds
do? Governments have done the same thing over and over. What we should be doing is praising and thanking the community
27:00
27 minutes
for creating things that are in place today.
27:04
27 minutes, 4 seconds
And if it wasn’t for them, we wouldn’t have. And all this time they’ve just been put in the shadows. Should be putting a light on this community. We
27:12
27 minutes, 12 seconds
should be seeing this community as a mechanism for advancement for humankind from an empathy perspective technologically, environmentally,
27:22
27 minutes, 22 seconds
hardware, software. You wouldn’t have, check this out, you wouldn’t have Siri or Google Speaks if it wasn’t for this
27:30
27 minutes, 30 seconds
community. You wouldn’t have the curb on a driveway or in a in a on on on the
27:37
27 minutes, 37 seconds
p on pathways if it wasn’t for this community. The curb and the dip or the dip in the curb or whatever it’s called, right?
27:44
27 minutes, 44 seconds
You wouldn’t have remote controls if it wasn’t for this community in some way, shape, or form. Yeah.
27:49
27 minutes, 49 seconds
And it wouldn’t have advanced. We wouldn’t have autonomous vehicles if it wasn’t for this community.
27:56
27 minutes, 56 seconds
Robotics would not be as driven and as quick moving as they are if it wasn’t
28:04
28 minutes, 4 seconds
for this community. Right. Half of these things either started as medical or military. Yeah.
28:11
28 minutes, 11 seconds
So instead of putting this community in the shadows, we should be putting a light. We should be thanking. We should
28:17
28 minutes, 17 seconds
be saying what else can we do with you outlier community that you can help us
28:24
28 minutes, 24 seconds
advance our agents to think more empathetically to
28:32
28 minutes, 32 seconds
sure AIs they can’t feel in the way they that we know they can right now but we can essentially write code to help them
28:41
28 minutes, 41 seconds
understand what a feeling is and the importance of humanity in this process going forward so an AI can find humanled
28:51
28 minutes, 51 seconds
jobs that we never knew existed. Like we’re not even thinking this way. We should be thinking, how can an AI create
28:58
28 minutes, 58 seconds
another job? How can hey Claude or Gemini, name me six jobs that you will need a human to do with you. We’re not
29:07
29 minutes, 7 seconds
thinking like that. Instead, we’re allowing fear to drive our thoughts. And so this is this is part of our venture
29:15
29 minutes, 15 seconds
and our dream in in in Outlier one day sort of creating the first fully
29:22
29 minutes, 22 seconds
accessible technologically advanced entertainment zone or theme park or ride for lack of better
29:30
29 minutes, 30 seconds
word. This is what we want to do and and we have that secret source to be able to do that. The greatest thing is it’s not
29:37
29 minutes, 37 seconds
a secret, you know. It’s a it’s it’s something that we will be just sharing with the world in the next sort of 12
29:43
29 minutes, 43 seconds
months or so. Um, and that’s I think that’s one of the reasons why you and I met is because you saw
29:50
29 minutes, 50 seconds
my my determination and dream that this is this is something that would be a gift to the world, not because I think
29:58
29 minutes, 58 seconds
human beings should be co-creating, should be uplifting one another.
30:02
30 minutes, 2 seconds
If you are uplifted, Sandre, then I’m uplifted. Then I, you know, I benefit from that. So, um, and vice versa. And I
30:11
30 minutes, 11 seconds
think we just need to create that understanding. Anyway, I’m rambling on there.
30:14
30 minutes, 14 seconds
Well, you know, I there ends the sermon of EK.
30:16
30 minutes, 16 seconds
I I I I love it. I have to tell you, I one thing I really appreciate you because you asked that hard question, right? And here I’m sure everybody
30:25
30 minutes, 25 seconds
listening and watching likely couldn’t automatically think of the things that uh the outlier community has brought
30:32
30 minutes, 32 seconds
into the world simply because uh it’s necessary, right? And we’re we’re we’re having people think differently. Yeah.
30:40
30 minutes, 40 seconds
One of the things that I’ve learned uh since being around you is really ultimately, you know, when you’re designing with this purpose and inclusion, right? uh of everybody.
30:52
30 minutes, 52 seconds
You’re designing for everybody. We are.
30:55
30 minutes, 55 seconds
That’s everything that we’re doing isn’t just for this community. It’s for everybody to enjoy. I want to be able to have, you
31:02
31 minutes, 2 seconds
know, my best mate who isn’t, you know, differently abled physically. He’s non-conforming mental health. He does
31:09
31 minutes, 9 seconds
have mental health stuff, but I want to be able to have the exact same experience as he does in my own way, but
31:17
31 minutes, 17 seconds
the exact same experience. I don’t want to be segregated from him. I don’t want to be in a different carriage at a theme park. You know, we went to Disneyland
31:25
31 minutes, 25 seconds
and Universal and I I’ll call them out right here right now. Every theme park I’ve been to, and I’ve been to a lot of theme parks. I don’t think I’ve ever
Chapter 7: The Theme Park Accessibility Crisis
31:34
31 minutes, 34 seconds
been to a place where every five minutes I’m reminded, yeah, that I’m more different than everybody
31:41
31 minutes, 41 seconds
else. Every five minutes I’m reminded that I lack ability. Even though I don’t lack any ability, I’m clearly more able
31:49
31 minutes, 49 seconds
than probably 90% of I mean, I could do probably things you can’t do and vice versa, right? We’re all in some way, shape, or form.
31:57
31 minutes, 57 seconds
So, there you go. So, you’re disabled.
32:01
32 minutes, 1 second
[laughter] That’s it. Um, so, and these places are designed for hope, for joy, yet I feel depressed when I’m there.
32:13
32 minutes, 13 seconds
Notice how 90% of the clientele, if I go to a theme park today, I might see maybe
32:20
32 minutes, 20 seconds
three or four people every 50 minutes, every hour that might be in a wheelchair or that’s differently aabled in some way, shape, or form or are trying to
32:29
32 minutes, 29 seconds
hide the fact that they’re differently aabled. Right? I’ve been to theme parks where I’m too short to go on a ride.
32:38
32 minutes, 38 seconds
Then make the ride better. Make it better. Like, so the reality is the
Chapter 8: The Trillion-Dollar Opportunity No One Sees
32:45
32 minutes, 45 seconds
industry is missing out on over a trillion dollar in annual disposable income globally
32:54
32 minutes, 54 seconds
that this community would have to spend on at their theme parks. Everything from
33:02
33 minutes, 2 seconds
merchandising to FMBs to fast mover goods, the whole package. It’s not just the ticket, it’s the whole experience.
33:12
33 minutes, 12 seconds
Right.
33:13
33 minutes, 13 seconds
The fact that I had that I fact that I went to a Universal Studios and I was forced to pay 150 bucks for a disabled
33:22
33 minutes, 22 seconds
parking spot is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard in my life. It’s
33:28
33 minutes, 28 seconds
just stupidity, right? There isn’t a need to do this. The market is beyond
33:35
33 minutes, 35 seconds
big enough. There’s 2.5 billion differently aabled. Nearly 25% of the US population have a disability, physical
33:45
33 minutes, 45 seconds
disability and other areas or are affected by their physical surroundings.
33:51
33 minutes, 51 seconds
That doesn’t even include those who have maybe one eye that’s blind or one ear that’s deaf or minor disabilities. Maybe
34:00
34 minutes
they’re missing a couple toes and they can’t walk and walk and walk and walk but they might able to walk 30 m
34:09
34 minutes, 9 seconds
a park anything tourism holidays it’s supposed to be a seamless joyous
34:17
34 minutes, 17 seconds
experience yet every time I travel I find myself feeling
34:24
34 minutes, 24 seconds
drained and exhausted and not joyful about it and therefore I’m not renewing
34:30
34 minutes, 30 seconds
my trip, my my journey. I’m not going again. You know, park industries, attractions, tourism, all that are
34:40
34 minutes, 40 seconds
experiencing, from what I’ve heard, you can correct me if I’m wrong, water parks, etc. are experiencing an all-time low in
34:48
34 minutes, 48 seconds
attendance, right? They’re experiencing an all-time low in people booking tickets because people don’t have the money and things like that. Here’s the
34:55
34 minutes, 55 seconds
thing about human beings. Where there is a will, there’s a way. There’s no will right now.
35:02
35 minutes, 2 seconds
And the different theabled audience have they dwarf they they have more disposable income than mothers and children combined.
35:12
35 minutes, 12 seconds
Yeah.
35:12
35 minutes, 12 seconds
Right. So just just fathom that. Twice the size of China’s GDP in the next 20 years.
35:20
35 minutes, 20 seconds
Like that is an insane number. So when you think about that or roundabouts when you think about that right
35:28
35 minutes, 28 seconds
you think how can I tap into this audience all the new parks that are being built
35:35
35 minutes, 35 seconds
don’t hire consultants who went to Harvard and that’s great and get them to be a part of the more the academic aspect of your
35:45
35 minutes, 45 seconds
research but maybe go to the practicality of it get actual differently aableds to come to your path
35:52
35 minutes, 52 seconds
parks or come to the designers to work with the designers, the architects, the things like that. Get them a get us a part of the the process from day one.
36:03
36 minutes, 3 seconds
And differently the aableds and I speak to all differently the aableds. Don’t be afraid to push the status quo. Push it so far that you could get fired, right?
36:13
36 minutes, 13 seconds
Because that’s the only way it’s going to change.
36:15
36 minutes, 15 seconds
Yeah, I agree. I you know I this is something that one you know I
36:23
36 minutes, 23 seconds
uh have really had my whole worldview changed having been around you with regards to some of this because you know
36:31
36 minutes, 31 seconds
working in theme parks you just think everybody loves it but once I started having these conversations with people and and we went to a park together
36:40
36 minutes, 40 seconds
yeah we went to a park together but it did I enjoy my time I mean it there were times where it was difficult it and it shouldn’t be hard.
36:47
36 minutes, 47 seconds
That’s not what we have set out to do. No.
36:50
36 minutes, 50 seconds
And and and not difficult because of you. No.
36:55
36 minutes, 55 seconds
It was difficult because of how things were being done.
36:58
36 minutes, 58 seconds
Yeah. And I, you know, some of the things like, you know, how often times people in wheelchairs are loaded
37:05
37 minutes, 5 seconds
separately than people who are not and or you’re waiting 40 minutes for a device to take you to the next location
37:14
37 minutes, 14 seconds
because you can’t walk the distance or whatever it is, right? I remember we waited one time for quite a while to get you uh what a
37:21
37 minutes, 21 seconds
device. But one of the things that also and probably the most important thing to me as somebody who works in this industry is that when I take my family
37:30
37 minutes, 30 seconds
to a park, the my favorite thing is seeing their faces, watching them have that experience and you don’t want that
37:39
37 minutes, 39 seconds
separation between people and I do see that being something that we have to fix in our industry. I also think that since
37:47
37 minutes, 47 seconds
I’ve been able to get to know you and understand the outlier community quite a lot more, I realize how many people
37:56
37 minutes, 56 seconds
are not having that amazing experience that we’re trying to create in the world and why we
38:03
38 minutes, 3 seconds
have purpose and we exist and and there’s something that needs to change.
38:06
38 minutes, 6 seconds
The funny thing is, if you’re able to make the experience seamless for this community, then what people don’t realize is you’re
38:14
38 minutes, 14 seconds
actually getting to make the experience seamless for everybody else. 100%.
38:18
38 minutes, 18 seconds
Right? Because you could just literally transfer that seamless experience to everyone.
38:24
38 minutes, 24 seconds
People are willing to pay premiums for things like this. They really are. It’s not like, no, it’s going to if you had
38:31
38 minutes, 31 seconds
to up upcharge by a dollar or $2. Oh my god. I could guarantee people will find
38:39
38 minutes, 39 seconds
the money. They will find ways. They will find opportunities. If you can create a a a reward system, uh there’s
38:48
38 minutes, 48 seconds
so many ways to get them back and back and back. There is, you know, there’s tokenizations that that exist. There’s
38:57
38 minutes, 57 seconds
so many things that you can actually create. There is a buy one get one free model. there is, hey, you know, maybe
39:04
39 minutes, 4 seconds
it’s a here’s your credit card and you have this many experiences a year, but you know, so there’s just so many
39:11
39 minutes, 11 seconds
different things you can do. The truth is and and because at the end of the day if you could get if you could up the
39:21
39 minutes, 21 seconds
level of attendance by at its peak before co if you could up it by 20%
39:30
39 minutes, 30 seconds
then you don’t actually even have to charge the premium that 20% will probably pay for and then some those
39:40
39 minutes, 40 seconds
add-ons those seamless add-ons those abil those retrofits that you may have done, it’ll actually pay for itself.
39:46
39 minutes, 46 seconds
I mean, I talk about that a lot and more in terms of what we’re trying to create in our in our part of the business. So, I agree with you. The math is there.
39:55
39 minutes, 55 seconds
Well, and I think also like and and you know, I don’t want to get in trouble for saying this, but I think that a lot of people don’t want to have this
40:03
40 minutes, 3 seconds
conversation. They don’t, which is why you’re such an important voice for this community and also
40:10
40 minutes, 10 seconds
educating people because I think a lot of it is just that, right? Like people are a product of the environment they’re raised in that at the end of the day that’s what it is. So in order to
Chapter 9: Changing Environments to Change Mindsets
40:18
40 minutes, 18 seconds
change people’s mindsets, you have to change the environment.
40:22
40 minutes, 22 seconds
Yeah. And also um we have to change the way people think about it. I mean like you’ve done for me. I think I I knew that there was
40:30
40 minutes, 30 seconds
not we that we were not we were missing the bar. I I think I’ve always known that about our about
40:37
40 minutes, 37 seconds
not just attractions like the world in general has a room for improvement but this is something I also love about what you say you know when you look at or
40:45
40 minutes, 45 seconds
what you’ve said to me when you look at a theme park as a small city which it is I mean we actually consider it that and
40:53
40 minutes, 53 seconds
you look at how things are being done the the measure for how we can gauge success in the real world changes
41:01
41 minutes, 1 second
because you can literally scale that into the actual ual urban society and world like you can actually create. So if you can
41:10
41 minutes, 10 seconds
figure out how to build the most accessible technologically advanced theme park, you can actually replicate that to the cities, right? Because it is a mini city, right?
41:23
41 minutes, 23 seconds
From medical centers to parking to retail to to tomb to all of it, right?
41:32
41 minutes, 32 seconds
It’s actually quite extraordinary, you know. So, I do think there is an to entertainment zone, to movie theater,
41:39
41 minutes, 39 seconds
whatever. So, I do think there’s a huge opportunity here. And the theme park industry, I don’t believe truly
41:46
41 minutes, 46 seconds
understands or sees the the the its actual full potential of
41:53
41 minutes, 53 seconds
what this industry could do. I mean a a really smartly built theme park can act
42:00
42 minutes
as an incubator as a tech incubator to create new technologies to license to
42:07
42 minutes, 7 seconds
other corporations and companies like these are the things and now with AI and robotics like by the time if you could
42:14
42 minutes, 14 seconds
build something like this you’ll have Google Amazon all of the biggest corporations saying how much
42:21
42 minutes, 21 seconds
so again and because you created it for this community so Again, yeah, it might cost a ton up front. Sure, let’s say
42:30
42 minutes, 30 seconds
something like this costs a billion dollars, right? But check this out. Your ROI is more like 20 billion.
42:38
42 minutes, 38 seconds
Yeah, it’s a huge margin. There’s so many monetizational elements to it that we human beings aren’t quite fathoming, you know, yet.
42:50
42 minutes, 50 seconds
And so the theme, but I see the theme park industry as an opportunity to literally redesign, reshape what the
42:58
42 minutes, 58 seconds
future of not only technology looks like, and I mean commercial tech, like not just theme park tech, commercial outside tech.
43:07
43 minutes, 7 seconds
Well, I think it was you that I uh had learned from or with the group in Cambridge.
43:13
43 minutes, 13 seconds
We did that symposium a few years ago about the Ford Focus. you know, when they looked at that vehicle and they
43:20
43 minutes, 20 seconds
made that ve vehicle as accessible as possible and still a long way to go for the for Yeah. for but but tried they
43:29
43 minutes, 29 seconds
they tried to do it. They gave it a go and it became I believe like the number one selling car.
43:35
43 minutes, 35 seconds
They did because when you think about this it again we’re designing for everybody.
43:40
43 minutes, 40 seconds
Barbie in a Barbie in a wheelchair became I think Barbie’s fastest ever selling doll.
43:46
43 minutes, 46 seconds
Yeah. The other thing that I do like about what uh about what you’re doing and and how you
43:54
43 minutes, 54 seconds
aim to have the outlier community seen, and I’ve heard you say this before, is just that when you do see representation
44:02
44 minutes, 2 seconds
in film, television, the focus isn’t on the difference with that person. It’s it shouldn’t be.
44:10
44 minutes, 10 seconds
It’s that they’re great actors or they’re a great employee or whatever it is. Yeah.
44:14
44 minutes, 14 seconds
And they’re and that they are we are Yeah, they we are I love that.
44:18
44 minutes, 18 seconds
Yeah. And this is more towards the differently aabled community. I I would say as well when you are hired to consult often enough differently aableds
44:27
44 minutes, 27 seconds
are fearful of okay if I push too hard I might lose this gig. And because the competition is scarce, because there’s
44:34
44 minutes, 34 seconds
not many people hiring differently aabled consultants and when they do hire them, it’s very much I need to tick this box and I need to tick this box.
44:44
44 minutes, 44 seconds
Companies will say, “Oh, but we hired accessibility consultants. We did this, we did that.” thing is the the these the differently
44:52
44 minutes, 52 seconds
aabled I’ll say this to all those with disabilities disabled community out ally community differently aabled community whatever we want to call ourselves or
45:00
45 minutes
you specifically want to identify yourself as um I say don’t be afraid to go all the way and challenge that status
Chapter 10: Don’t Tick Boxes: Push the Status Quo
45:08
45 minutes, 8 seconds
quo like push them if it means you know making sure that the railing and I’m just using the railing is at this height
45:17
45 minutes, 17 seconds
instead of this height or you need four other changes. Make the four other changes. Force the company
45:24
45 minutes, 24 seconds
that you’re working with to make that because what are they going to do? Fire the small brown boy? Well, that’s you go to the CNN BBC and tell
45:32
45 minutes, 32 seconds
them that and that company’s stocks drop. You hold the power differently aabled. You really do because that’s the truth of it, right? And vice versa.
45:42
45 minutes, 42 seconds
Companies when you hire, don’t hire to tick a box. higher because you genuinely want to approach it from a human first
45:51
45 minutes, 51 seconds
or empathy first level. Otherwise, don’t do it at all. And that’s my philosophy is either go all the way or not at all.
45:59
45 minutes, 59 seconds
I don’t me as an individual don’t have the time nor energy to be wasting on going at something that is not that is
46:08
46 minutes, 8 seconds
only 10% movement or 1% or 3%. So everything that we do will have a
46:15
46 minutes, 15 seconds
minimum of what we do in our own company which is a minimum of 30 to 50% of our
46:22
46 minutes, 22 seconds
cast and crew will be part of the outlier community which means everything that we do with the theme park industry and things like that.
46:31
46 minutes, 31 seconds
I commit that I will find a way or our company finds a way to create at least
46:39
46 minutes, 39 seconds
30 to 50% movement. 30 to 50% better than what it actually was, right?
46:47
46 minutes, 47 seconds
Because I think it’s it’s it I don’t think I know it’s doable. We’re not going to get 100% of the way. I get that. And we need to just sometimes make
46:56
46 minutes, 56 seconds
a move, but make a move where it’s approached from that place of hang on a minute. If I’m going to plant this
47:04
47 minutes, 4 seconds
tomato again, I’m going to make sure it grows back properly. Not halfway, not
47:11
47 minutes, 11 seconds
tiny bit better, but actually fully edible.
47:15
47 minutes, 15 seconds
And that 30 to 50% range is the edible range, if that makes sense.
47:20
47 minutes, 20 seconds
Yeah. Well, has a lovely place for us to wrap this up because one I
47:28
47 minutes, 28 seconds
I want to add to your point in that, you know, it’s not even just take a chance. It’s what if you find
47:37
47 minutes, 37 seconds
somebody as amazing as you and you overlooked that because you were just trying to check a box or you weren’t thinking from that
47:45
47 minutes, 45 seconds
place of empathy like because I mean [clears throat] look at who you are and you’ve done
47:52
47 minutes, 52 seconds
something performing with Coldplay on at creating film and television. I mean all the things that you do there are
48:01
48 minutes, 1 second
and most people in the world wouldn’t even attempt. I I’ve been I have been I’ve been lucky um along the way, but
48:09
48 minutes, 9 seconds
and and I’ve been fortunate because not everybody has a Chris Martin or a Coldplay, but I will say this, as lucky as I’ve been and as fortunate
48:18
48 minutes, 18 seconds
as I’ve been, I’ve also been quite unfortunate in many respects.
Chapter 11: Homeless to Headliner: Emmanuel’s Full Story
48:23
48 minutes, 23 seconds
I’ve been homeless. I’ve slept on a park bench in Santa Monica. I’ve gotten, you know, involved in drugs and alcohol. And
48:30
48 minutes, 30 seconds
that’s a whole story that we tell in a movie that comes out next year which is around my life um and told from the lens
48:39
48 minutes, 39 seconds
of the Coldplay tour. So I’ve had those unfortunate scenarios and circumstances.
48:45
48 minutes, 45 seconds
I’ve had to deal with you know mental health on a personal level. Not from me personally. I mean I’ve dealt with my
48:52
48 minutes, 52 seconds
own mental health issues in the past but it wasn’t a wasn’t conditionwise. It was just I was in a bad place with drugs and
49:00
49 minutes
alcohol and homelessness. But I’ve had a partner in the past who’s dealt with mental health and I know what that did
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49 minutes, 7 seconds
to her and she’s an extraordinary human being. Was an, you know, and is an extraordinary human being who every day
49:16
49 minutes, 16 seconds
finds the will and finds a way to just enjoy and and and love life. And it’s tough. Um, and now I have a new partner
49:26
49 minutes, 26 seconds
who who hasn’t really had those experiences per for herself, but has had it for family members. So, at the end of
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49 minutes, 33 seconds
the day, we’ve all got a story. We’ve all got something. It’s not about what that something does to you. It’s about
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49 minutes, 40 seconds
what you do and how you use that something to drive what you want to achieve in your life.
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49 minutes, 48 seconds
Yeah, I love that. Well, hey, thank you for being here. Dream fever. Yeah, dream fever. Boom.
Chapter 12: Dream Fever
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49 minutes, 54 seconds
I’m excited. Can’t wait to see it. I’ve already I know I’ve been asking when do I get to see it. So, no, but have the dream fever. That’s that’s a disease we can catch.
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50 minutes, 2 seconds
Yes. [music] I love that. Well, thank you so much for being here today. Thanks for having me. Of course. Been awesome. Appreciate you, son.
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50 minutes, 8 seconds
Appreciate you.