Preview & Introduction: The Sub Sea Systems Legacy
0:00
I’ve always been like a visual person, a hands-on person. So, digging my face into a book and tests and, you know, you
0:06
name it, the nuances of school was was not for me. And obviously, I learned through trial and error and a number of
0:12
failures that obviously in order to make one thing work, I obviously had to to make that connection to the classroom.
0:18
All these little things that you learn when you’re in the moment, man, you can get down on yourself. But in the future,
0:23
you look back and think, okay, well, grew from that. There’s a lot more pressure. there’s a
0:29
lot more writing on it. In fact, one of my mentors said, “When you’re in a
0:34
family business, when the business isn’t okay, the family’s not okay. And vice versa, when it’s good.”
0:40
And I think that, you know, all boils down to again perspective on it and just sort of your mentality as a business and
0:46
our leadership. What can we take from this? What can we build off of it? You know, obviously, how can we work not to
0:51
make those mistakes again? Of course, that’s that’s sort of paramount. I think it really is important to to be a little
0:57
bit more raw and open with failures. Welcome to Live with Sandra. We’re
1:03
living in a time where technology is everywhere. AI, screen, simulation,
1:08
digital overlays, but something interesting is happening inside the attraction industry. Guests are craving
1:16
something real. Not just something they can see on a screen, something they can feel. Physical immersion, engineering
1:23
that becomes experience. What makes today’s conversation especially interesting to me is that we are talking
1:31
about a family business that has spent three decades building immersive experiences around the world. From
1:38
underwater walking experiences to an actual car that drives underwater,
1:43
today’s guests are pushing the boundaries of what immersive entertainment can look like. Today we’re
1:51
going beneath the surface. Today I’m joined by two leaders from
1:57
SubC Systems. This is a company that has spent more than three decades designing
2:02
underwater attractions around the world. You may know them for innovations like Seek, which allows guests to walk along
2:10
the ocean floor, or the Aquatic Car and underwater car experience that feels
2:16
almost impossible until you see it. Joining me today are Hannah Debie, vice
2:22
president of marketing and communications, the storyteller and the brand strategist behind many of the most
2:29
recognizable experiences. And Kenan Mayfield, vice president of operations,
2:35
the person responsible for installing and operating these complex experiences across the globe.
The Origin Story: Pioneering Aquatic Experiences
2:46
Hannah Keenan, welcome to Live with Sandra. Thank you. Thank you for pleasure to be here.
2:51
We’re excited for this different format for us. So, we’re excited. Awesome. I’m so glad. I love having you
2:57
here in the studio and you know, I know like we’ve had a conversation before. I’m really excited
3:04
to have you here today. Be careful what you wish for. And it’s different face to face versus
3:10
the computer screen. So, for sure. For sure. Well, I um I really want to start with kind of like your
3:17
origin story. Like I know for you guys, SubC Systems, 30-year-old 30-year-old
3:24
said a little bit plus family business. And I mean, you guys are doing really cool things in the attraction space, but
3:32
just so our audience has like an idea of who you guys are, I’d love to hear that from you.
3:37
Yeah. So, we we’re a family business, uh two generations. Our dad started the company back in 1985 and he and his
3:44
business partners at the time had this dream that they wanted to build submarines and so they ended up building
3:49
semi submersibles. So half below water, half above water and then from there they built 24 vessels that we sold
3:57
around the world. Some are still actually a lot are still in operation today which is pretty incredible.
4:02
Um from there we just went on to um just follow our passion and that’s taking people underwater. So they developed
4:08
Snuba. We went into Serek, which is our helmet diving system that started in 99.
4:13
We now produce um originally it was called Funcat, now it’s called Solar Cat. They’re these little solar
4:18
electrically powered boats. Um and from there we’ve built out to Aquatic Car, which is our underwater ride system that
4:24
we’re super excited. We’ll open the very first one this year. We have VR snorkeling. So, all of our product line
4:31
is intended to take people underwater and just make that underwater world accessible. I love that. I love that. And we’ve
4:38
talked before. I have not done much underwater. I’m super excited to try with you guys.
4:45
Try with you guys. We are gonna change that. Yes, we need to change that. The next live show will be us in seat
4:50
track helmets underwater with I think you might be on to something. So, I’m just like,
4:57
well, I want to kind of go back to this family business because, as you know, I’m also in a family business that I run
5:04
with my sister. And I know that there’s a lot of misconception and I’m super excited about having this conversation
5:09
on the show for sure today because so many people think about family business as one thing, but I think when you’re in
5:16
a family business, you know, it’s something different than maybe what the
5:21
outside world thinks. Yeah, for sure. there’s a lot more pressure. There’s a lot more riding on
5:28
it. In fact, one of my mentors said um to me one time that when you’re in a
5:33
family business, when the business isn’t okay, the family’s not okay. And vice versa, when it’s good, right? So, I’d
5:41
love to maybe hear from you guys together individually because I’m curious because I know this was your
5:48
second generation. Yes. But at what point did this become a decision for you
5:54
to be in the business versus this? I mean, maybe it wasn’t. Maybe it was just
5:59
something that you always knew growing up in the business. I think you just hit it spot on. I mean, we grew up in the business. I grew up
6:06
with a scuba regulator in my mouth in the bathtub. And so, we were always just in and out of the water and traveling
6:13
with our dad cuz he traveled a lot in those early days to set up new seat locations. And so occasionally we would
6:20
tag along and it was just a fun environment. So as you got older and realized, wait, this is the job that our
6:26
dad does. That sounds like a cool profession. It just was so enticing and I I knew
6:32
early on that I wanted to work for the business. So I dedicated my my college career to international business.
6:38
Spanish was my minor. Really focused on the needs that the company had and came into the business right after I
6:44
graduated college. My brothers on the other hand, it took a little bit longer for them to find their path, but they
6:50
eventually found their way back to the company. There’s the picture perfect version.
6:56
Now you want to hear the more roughed up version. You can you can get my take. No, I I think I, you know, my path was
7:03
was, I guess you could say, less traveled, a little more meandering here, a little bit more meandering there, uh,
7:09
based off of, you know, my interests and, uh, whatever whatever was my flavor
7:14
of the week, per se, at the time. Um, and Hannah, to her credit, was a lot more focused, like she said. I mean,
7:21
she’s always kind of been our our golden child. The middle, you would think the middle child would be a golden child,
7:28
too. It’s cuz I’m the only girl. Yeah. Well, she’s a redhead, so she stands out. Um, but yeah, I, you know, I
7:35
I always had a passion for sports, team sports, rugby. Rugby was my sport, and that’s kind of what, um, I guess you
7:41
could say I used as my vessel to carry me through, through school. I just was
7:46
not school wasn’t my thing. I’ve always been like a visual person, a hands-on person,
7:53
so digging my face into a book and tests and, you know, you name it. the nuances of school was was not for me. And
7:59
obviously I learned um as we’ll probably talk about through through trial and error and and a number of failures that
8:05
obviously in order to uh to make one thing work which which was rugby I obviously had to to make that connection
8:12
to the to the classroom. Um so you know through that and and getting myself
8:17
through school and and being able to do what I wanted to do obviously taught me a lot but at the same time you know I always had this this draw to to my
8:23
family. I mean, I’ve, you know, family to me and to us is is number one. That’s
8:29
absolutely paramount to us. Our relationship with our family is, I mean, we get told this often. You know, we’re
8:34
we’re different. You know, our family is just we we have a different relationship. Our our connection with each other through personally and and
8:41
through our business is just is unique. Um, which you know, I I wear as a huge compliment obviously. Um, but yeah, I
8:49
just always drawn to my family and obviously our our family is our business and in so many ways.
8:54
Um, so I think that’s just was such a draw for me back back to that. Uh, and then like Hannah said, that’s
9:01
it. It it is our kind of our our sense of being in a way growing up literally immersed in water. I mean, we have
9:06
photos of of my dad with a a dive cylinder and and a regulator in our bathtub. We’re, you know, three, six,
9:14
eight years old, whatever it was. Um, and so we’ve just been so heavily literally immersed in in the business
9:19
through our whole life, running around the shop, uh, doing different odds and ends. I mean, we were sweeping floors
9:24
and cleaning toilets from a really young age. So, I think that always stuck with me whether I had some stray passions or,
9:31
uh, things I wanted to do. I think it always was calling me. interject because
9:37
he was our dad always said you need to go work for someone else before you come and
9:42
work for the company because you just need some experience with another manager. Yeah. I needed some discipline and some
9:48
direction. Yeah. And it wasn’t going to come I don’t think you came to respect it straight from her dad at the time.
9:53
Nope. Not at all. Nailed it. Nailed it on the head. He eventually found his way back and we’re super proud of how far he’s grown.
9:59
Stubborn. It’s a stubborn mule. Well, you know what I love about the what you mentioned is um and and correcting me
10:08
because I don’t know the official title, global operations. Operations. Awesome. Well, I I I too am a I’m a
10:16
college dropout. Although, one of my guests told me I’m not allowed to call it that, but I love calling it that. Yeah, call it that.
10:21
I’m going to call it that. Making this a badge of honor anymore. But, you know, like in operations, I think there is something to be said
10:26
about people who um for me being in operations all these
10:32
years, I feel like there’s something to be said about that mind that maybe doesn’t do as well in school. We don’t
10:38
have to get into that part, but you know, I can relate to what you’re saying, right? For sure. And and uh I
10:44
didn’t care for tests. I I didn’t I didn’t like uh the deadlines, you know, and not that I don’t like deadlines at
10:51
work cuz they’re super important at work, but it’s just different. Yeah. I’m sure you know, right? Hitting
10:56
hitting these things because it’s goal oriented. Yes. And probably similar in your sporting. Yes. Absolutely.
11:03
Playing with teams. It’s team oriented. Yeah. To that aspect is my family is my
11:09
team now. I mean that that’s a good way to put it. you know, for so long after college and after rugby was over there, I sort of yearned
11:15
for that team sort of, you know, our 5 a.m. wakeups, for workouts, and everything. I mean, I was I wouldn’t
11:21
call carried, but I mean, you’re carrying your team. You’re carrying each other to to meet those goals, those deadlines, to be accountable, to show
11:27
up. And so, there was a long time, I would say, after college, uh, where my frontal lobe was still developing.
11:34
I was like, what? I was just yearning for that that team mentality, that brotherhood. Uh, and I think it took me
11:40
a long time to sort of realize that I had that already in my family, too. Um, so showing up for each other,
11:46
working together like a team, as a family. Uh, you know, it gives you that same gives me at least and us that same
11:53
sort of sense of purpose. Yeah. But yeah, I think you’re I think you kind of nailed it with the ops mentality. I think I’ve I’ve always just
Mechanics & Family Dynamics of a Family Business
12:00
like I said visual hands-on uh communicating with people. I think one thing as I’m gabbing right now is we
12:09
always joke that our dad just has this alienable ability to communicate with
12:15
virtually anyone. Literally anyone. He can make a friend out of any stranger on the airplane and airport
12:20
uh or anywhere in the world really for that matter. Uh and I think we all were blessed. Uh, well, maybe not Kyle.
12:28
I’m just kidding. I’m kidding. I love you, brother, if you’re listening. Um, but yeah, I I think we all have a very
12:35
personal ability uh to communicate with with most people. Yeah. Um, well, I think that’s what’s so neat
12:41
about a family, right, in business, working with my sister. And you guys
12:46
can’t see Leona back here, but she’s back here. It’s funny that you said she had to I We did make her go. We didn’t
12:52
make her, but she went and got another job before she came on board, too. Probably for very similar reasons
12:58
because it is, you know, when you grow up in the business, my kids growing up in the business and this industry, they know a
13:04
lot about what we do. They probably know my business better than most people, right?
13:10
They’ve seen the good, the bad, the ugly parts of the business, the ride that I’m on or that my team’s on. Because as you
13:17
know we’re the stress early mornings, the late nights, all of it. You get to the you can’t hide that
13:23
from your family. Yeah. But uh I often talk to Tiffany about when people ask us, “How do you work
13:29
together?” And um I love she always says, “Well, we have like family
13:35
business and then we have business.” It’s just different. We know what’s what, right? but also the incredible
13:42
support system that you have in business if you’re working with your family
13:48
because you also have somebody if I’m in a meeting, hey Tiff, can you go get the kids?
13:54
You know, I can’t ask anybody else to do that, right? But she’s aligned with me.
14:00
She’s always willing to or vice versa. We help each other out in a traditional
14:05
Yeah. You just hit through a big big talking point for us. We all have two kids and um school age kids. My older
14:12
brother and I both have school age kids and yeah, we’re always helping each other out. Can you watch the kids? I’m
14:17
in a meeting. Can you help me up? Whatever it is. Can you occupy them at the shop while they’re running around with their heads
14:23
counteract? Yeah. Yeah. Let me take this call. You make sure they make it to school on time or
14:28
Although I will say there was one time we didn’t fully watch the kids because my old and my brother’s youngest were in
14:36
the conference room. We thought they were set up with a show and totally occupied. We came up later to find that they had taken our dry erase board
14:42
markers and drawn over all of the walls in our conference room. And come to find out that doesn’t come off very easily. And to this day,
14:48
there’s still some of that left on the walls in our conference room. Though I I have some stories of my kids.
14:55
They didn’t write on the walls at work at least. They did at home.
15:01
And but they there would be times where I would come in and there would be messages from kids on the whiteboard in
15:07
a conference room. Don’t mind that at all. I was like, “Oh, okay.” You know, but
15:13
it’s it it’s nice to have the kids around in the business, too. And I don’t know if you guys
15:20
ever seen the picture that I have this one favorite picture. I’ve got a kid on my back at Yep.
15:25
And I’ve seen that. And I always brought them with me. I mean, I usually had help. Yeah.
15:30
So I could do meetings and get away when I needed to. But you know, I love being with my family and I love the work that
15:37
I do and it’s like to be able to marry those two things. I’m sure is really nice. Yeah. And I think you hit on a lot of
15:43
people ask us how do you work with your family and and our natural response is well we love our we love being together.
15:48
We see each other during the work week and then we’ll hang out on the weekend too. Right. And that’s not always the family
15:54
dynamic which I we feel very fortunate just as you and Tiffany and the rest of the family I’m sure feel. just you love
16:00
being around each other and it’s a benefit. We know it’s unique. I mean, obviously you you hear horror stories. We you
16:06
know, you hear about families with struggle and and that just don’t have the same dynamic. So, I think we always
16:11
kind of keep that in mind. We definitely don’t take it for granted ever. Um but then at the same time, kind of like you said, just with working with family, but
16:18
at the same time, you know, fostering and nurturing that sort of relationship, some people just they just flat out
16:24
don’t understand. Yeah. Um, and until you are immersed in it, uh, both on the business side of it
16:29
and just the familial and the relationship side of it, it’s hard to to fully comprehend how some one would want
16:35
to spend every day at work with their sibling and be totally fine on the
16:41
weekend with hooking up with our kids and everybody hanging out, you know, having a barbecue and some beers or something. And we I we’ve talked about this before.
16:48
We’ve been more intentional in the past couple years about really protecting the family dynamic. And like we discussed
16:55
the succession plan and getting it on paper so that we avoid, you know, any potential hopefully fallout in the
17:01
future, trying to set ourselves up with a good foundation. Well, so that actually kind of brings me to one of my
17:07
questions I had for you guys cuz I know for us it is about kind of aligning our lives with the same similar goals or
17:15
whatever that legacy for our family looks like. Is there something like that that you guys have? You know, you talk
17:21
about succession plan for the family, but you know, what is it that
17:26
maybe aligns you all together? I think first and foremost is that we do want a legacy business. We’re not here
17:32
to grow and then sell it and walk away. And so, we’re definitely building something that has longevity and
17:38
hopefully one of our kids or multiple of generation three will want to go into the business. So,
17:43
we’re aligned there, which is a great goal that we all have in mind. Um, and
17:49
then just I think on our values, values for family and for business, they bleed
17:54
over into business. Yeah, you nailed that one. Yeah, I love that. I mean, that’s how we
18:00
are, too. Yeah, I was going to ask, what about you guys? Yeah, kind of similar. You know, we have very similar uh when we think about like
18:06
what the future looks like for us, we’re definitely aligned on what that is. And so, everything else kind of just goes
18:13
into that plan, right? And and I would even go as far as to say because I know
18:18
you also do have people working in your business and on your team that aren’t family like we do. How do they, you
18:25
know, mold into that or fall into that in a way that also gets them where they want to go?
18:31
Yeah. I mean, we say they’re extended family. Yeah. I hope they feel that. But um I
18:36
mean we we definitely strive to allow opportunities for growth and so try to
18:42
support staff in different ways. You know if they want to pursue some sort of skill um then coming feeling that they
18:49
can come to us and we can support them. One example would be we’ve been encouraging some of our staff if they
18:54
want to get welding certified then let us pay for the education. Yeah. If you’re listening to this right now you better get it together.
19:01
So just trying to have open communication and allow for that growth because we want to we want to maintain
19:07
our employees. We have great employees and so if we can
19:13
make sure they’re happy, we’re happy, then it’s a win-win. Yeah, we’ve had a lot of success, I would say, with retention. I think it’s
19:18
something that I personally think about and maybe not necessarily worry about, but I mean I always feel like I care a
19:26
lot about what other people think to a vault sometimes. And um I yeah I think
19:32
just making sure that that dynamic sometimes is is comfortable for them because we are close family and as much
19:38
as we consider you know our employees as an extension of our family obviously they’re they’re not our family. Um so
19:44
you know doing everything that we can to kind of bring them in on on as much as we can. Uh, and like Hannah said, you
19:50
know, incorporating them into, you know, different opportunities for growth, um, and different, you know, positives that
19:56
they can they can look to in room for growth, of course. Um, you know, I think we’re always looking for any avenue
20:02
obviously for retention first and foremost. Uh, but just to also make truly make them feel like they’re part
20:08
of that familial dynamic. I think a big challenge and maybe you’ve I don’t know if you’ve experienced this is making
20:14
sure that they feel comfortable enough comfortable enough to speak to us even if it’s about a family member like hey
20:20
look at I had this I didn’t like how this happened or whatever it may be I want them and and I’ve had situations
20:27
where yeah they they can come to me and talk to me about hey I don’t like it when Kina did this or I didn’t absolutely
20:32
yeah let’s talk about this and those are tough conversations to have I could put myself in an employee shoes and be
20:38
concerned about bringing that up to one of the family members. Sure. But but making sure those communication
20:43
lines are open, that’s really important. We’re going to take a quick moment because conversations like this just
Brand Partner Spotlight: Water Technology Inc. (WTI)
20:50
don’t happen by accident. Across the world, Water Technology, Inc. is helping
20:55
operators turn vision into fully realized aquatic experiences. From early concept and master planning
21:02
to design engineering and project execution, their team brings together
21:08
architects, engineers, and designers to build environments that are intentional,
21:14
immersive, and built to perform. What I love most about WTI is this. They don’t
21:19
just design water parks. They design how people experience them. Every detail is
21:26
thought through. From guest flow to water quality to the emotional connection a space creates because great
21:32
experiences don’t happen by accident. They’re engineered. So whether you’re building something new or re-imagined,
21:40
this level of thinking is what separates good from unforgettable. You can learn
21:45
more about WTI at wtiworld.com. All right, let’s get back into it.
21:53
Now, do you guys have spouses in the family or in the business? Not in the business. Okay.
Navigating Family Dynamics in Leadership
21:59
Cuz that was a weird one when we brought my husband in. Yeah. You know, and and did you did you guys talk about it
22:05
before? Like Well, so I had already been on my way
22:11
with Gate Master and Tiffany as well. Um, so I the years, it’s hard to
22:17
remember, but I think I’m 25. Tiff’s probably been in the business close to 20. And um yeah, I mean we had to talk
22:25
about it, but it just very sim in similar ways to the team that we have.
22:30
You know, how does this person work in to this legacy plan that we have or
22:38
to this bigger vision that we have for the future? And I I think it’s really interesting
22:45
especially with my husband because we’re aligned on where we he and I want to go, right? and then to see that mold into
22:53
the business as well. I mean, he and I have a couple of other companies, so we also we have his mind and ours
22:59
companies. So, we we we do all of those things. Gate Master being the one that I do with Tiffany. And then we’re I just
23:06
lucky to have him because he had experience in things that we didn’t have
23:12
in the business, right? And so it was nice to have somebody come into the business that came with that expertise, could share it
23:18
with us, and then kind of help us get better. So I think a lot of times for me, whether
23:24
it’s it’s a a married person on the team or just somebody that we’ve hired to be on the team, um, yeah, I I it it’s
23:32
interesting because I saw somebody post a thing on LinkedIn the other day about like, how come we don’t tell our
23:38
teammates we love them more? Like the people that are working the time, We’re hug we’re hugs and so
23:46
yes probably too too often we’re hugs and laugh even cry like and I know I you
23:52
know I I try not to have judgment about it because I know that in the typical corporate world maybe that’s not
23:59
acceptable right but at least it’s real yes it’s real life
24:04
why why would anyone want anything other than that like to what you just said the typical corporate environment corporate
24:10
world I mean that might as well be dang on. Yeah, truly. I mean, nobody wants anything
24:15
more than a real, you know, real life experience when they’re at their job. And I feel like if you can’t be real
24:21
with someone and be your raw self, obviously to an extent, of course. Sure. Yes.
24:26
But at the same time, I feel like that will bring the best out in your employees and and them seeing maybe a little bit
24:33
more raw and natural side of you just creates that much more of like that personable connection probably.
24:38
Yeah. And that we’re human beings. I literally was just going to say that like even their boss, even the CEO of
24:44
the company, like they have that real side just like you do. We go through the same struggles as people.
24:50
Um, so yeah, again, just adding to that personal side of that with with your employees just draws that connection in
24:56
that much more, too. Yeah. Yeah. We’ve never had to navigate the the spousal side of it, though. So, it
25:02
is interesting to kind of hear that side of it. Actually, in our we in our succession planning, right, we we opted not to have
25:08
spouses join the company. We just thought it was more clearcut that
25:14
buy sell agreement if there would ever be some sort of or death or, you know, loss.
25:19
Um, but yeah, I mean, we’re also fortunate that they’re each of our spouses are in more the
25:26
medical field and have, you know, clear-cut direction what they’re doing. But yeah, I mean it’s again another
25:31
interesting uh what probably for some people would be a very difficult uh process to
25:37
navigate especially as your spouse be one thing if it was a brother or sister or cousin or I will say we so our dad started the
25:44
company but our mom hi mom she works for the company too she’s our CFO so we do see a married
25:49
couple in the company and we’ve seen those struggles you know good the bad ugly so
25:55
Oh yeah I mean I I often call my husband my husband and my I used to call him a
26:01
consultant. He’s a coach. Okay. So now I call him a coach now cuz consultant’s not as cool as coach
26:06
anymore. But now now today we want to call him coach coach, right? But you know I I think it’s interesting
26:15
that you guys had this plan cuz we at this point that we have a very similar plan like I don’t know if anybody else’s
26:21
spouse is getting in but I think before we understood where we were going he was already there. Yeah.
26:27
Yeah. So, sorry honey, you’re kind of Yeah, he’s a he was you’re in he was a part of he was a part of it by
26:34
association, right? But we even think about like the kids, you know, how are we going to get them
26:40
in the business and if they don’t want to be in the business, how do we still take what we’re building and make sure
26:45
that everyone has what they need in the end. Try and make it equitable. We literally navigated that exact same thing. Sort of
26:52
work that into our tough questions too cuz there things that you maybe don’t want to think about
26:57
but you have to like your kid not wanting to carry on the legacy of your family. I mean that’s
27:02
a right that’s a big item right there. Just you know a child not wanting to to be gen 3
27:07
or carry on the family business which I understand sometimes in businesses right it does it does happen. In fact, I’ve got a you know, I
27:15
I have a a client of mine that’s been with me probably over 10 years, and it was a family
27:22
business, but none of the kids wanted to take it over. Yeah. Now, they were able to find someone to
27:28
come in and do it who’s amazing. So, it all worked out in the end, but I’m sure
27:33
to your point and what you guys are saying and I’m sure to how I would feel about the situation if my kids were like
27:39
a little bit would imagine. A little bit, but it doesn’t mean it can’t live on, right? Absolutely.
27:45
So, that’s why we try to just keep having fun to show the kids, look how fun our work is. You want to go.
27:51
Yeah. You’re going to love it. Well, so that’s where that’s where I’m curious. Have you guys had the uh you
27:56
said you were working but I saw you at Epic Universe conversation with your kids yet?
The Realities and Ups & Downs of Travel
28:01
Not yet cuz they’re still a little young to to realize that. But I’m sure down the road it’ll
28:07
Oh, it’s going to happen. Absolutely. I’m sure cuz Kyle’s kids Kyle’s being the oldest obviously has the oldest
28:12
kids. And I’m sure with with Wyatt at a certain point he’s going to either see or or hear of somewhere cool that that
28:19
dad’s at and wonder what in the world for right will be just as you’ve done. bring the kids to IAPA, get them
28:25
involved in that and yeah, I mean, they’re already so immersed in the day-to-day and then they get to, you know, already tagging along
28:31
to some of the some of the places, you know, Mexico and other places where we where we do business. So, I think
28:36
they’ve already kind of been like eased into a little bit of that. But I think one thing that’s funny along
28:41
those lines is uh just like the nuance of travel and just sort of some of the
28:47
luxuries that you have as being a seasoned traveler. And like we were talking about the other day, you know, our our kids are only going to know what
28:54
like the Admiral’s Club lounge experience is like and potentially getting a free upgrade to first class
28:59
and they’ll never know like what a true what a true blue flying experience is
29:04
like. U you know, we just kind of laugh about that and then being potentially spoiled and a little bit tainted and uh
29:10
and what traveling might be like early on because we do get to reap some of those benefits of being, you know, seasoned travelers.
29:16
No, I love that. I all of this resonates with me cuz my my daughter the first time we uh well the first time she went
29:24
to London we rode first class to Denver and afterwards my husband’s
29:31
like well you think we’re spoiling her. I’m like no she’s going to know exactly like how it should be what she wants to strive for.
29:38
Like it’s hard to go back and show them what you can do is hard work. Oh no. Which celebrity said like
29:44
go first class and you’re never gonna go want to go back, right? So you’ll work harder to go maintain that
29:49
and maintain that. Yeah. Which is really So I was like no that’s just how it’s supposed to be. Like that’s so she knows
29:55
how it’s supposed to be. So I thought that was uh I think it’s funny and I appreciate that you guys do
30:00
that for your kids and let them have those experiences and Yeah. But sooner or later they’ll sit in the back while we ride.
30:06
Yeah. While we’re up front. That’s perfect. Just wave at them as they walk by. I always do that when you know American
30:12
Airlines we’re dedicated to for better or worse and I’m executive platinum and
30:18
you know you get throw that one out there. You get free upgrades and it’s always humbling when
30:25
you get a free upgrade on one segment of the flight and then the next flight you got to go back to main cabin it’s like
30:31
yeah I’ve been there crap I’ve been there so I it’s humbling
30:37
it is humbling and then it makes you want to work harder absolutely yes that’s the way I see it every time I’m
30:42
like okay I got to work harder as well I never have to come back here but you know that just is all part of
30:49
like this experience of running your own business and and and I think it’s I I think it’s so cool that you guys are
30:55
running a 30 plus year old company with your family. Yeah. And you know, one of the things that a
Clear Lounge: How Product Failures Drive Success
31:02
lot of people don’t like talking about in business, but you guys have been very open about it and willing to share is
31:07
failures. You know that is something that you know failing forward is a
31:12
reality of a lot of businesses a lot of people in business because I know some of the people listening or watching this
31:19
podcast they’re not necessarily ready for that failure but they I think
31:26
it’s important that people like us share that this is going to happen. Yeah. I don’t think and what that looks like
31:32
ready for a failure. No. But they happen just as you said and I mean one of the most prominent
31:39
failures in my mind that we’ve had happened long into the um established
31:44
company history. Uh we had a product called Clear Lounge. It’s an underwater oxygen bar. It was using our seat
31:51
helmets. You went into this freestand standing aquarium and you’re breathing um enriched oxygen that you got to pick
31:57
an aromatherapy scent for. So it was a really cool way to take an oxygen bar underwater. And while you’re underwater,
32:04
we had a photo booth and games and you could shoot these cool um we call them bubble pulse guns. They shoot a
32:10
high-speed O-ring under underwater. So, all kinds of activities. People loved the experience, which that part hurts my
32:16
heart a little bit because it was such a cool experience and people had fun. But where our first one was established
32:23
was just the wrong location. It had the foot traffic, but it was transient foot traffic. the people going
32:29
by already had a destination, a tour booked, somewhere else to be. They may stop and look at the clear lounge, but
32:35
they didn’t have the time to stop and actually do it. And so I don’t even know how long it lasted. A year or two in it
32:42
just the about four four years I think. Yeah, four years of you know pain really
32:50
painfully trying to you know do everything everything we could to to nurture that alone. Yeah. trying new marketing ideas,
32:56
package tours, you know, trying everything that we could think of and it just it all it all boiled down to
33:02
product placement. 100%. Yeah. And that Yeah. I mean, that hurt. That
33:08
one definitely hurt. That was our our very first one, our baby. We were so excited. It was a new huge
33:14
substantial investment. But, you know, out of it, one, we learned obviously we learned a lot of lessons from that. location is is such a
33:21
paramount uh when putting a new product somewhere and to Kenan and I were
33:27
talking about this earlier for that product we used so our our seat track helmets are traditionally white if
33:32
you’ve seen it or done it um but we for clear lounge made a very special helmet that was clear it fit the brand it was a
33:39
completely clear helmet it was super cool differentiated the product from sea truck as well
33:44
yeah and that ended up being the helmet that Netflix saw when they were looking for something for strange things.
33:51
So, you know, everything happens for a reason and that ended up coming down. It provided a new opportunity for
33:58
us in the long run. Yeah. I mean, that’s that’s how you try and again fail forward,
34:03
try and gain some perspective about that failure, especially looking back on it uh and find as many of the positives
34:09
that you can uh to either learn from or or just find hope from. Um, and like
34:14
Hannah said with Stranger Things, I mean, uh, we were included in the first and the last season. Uh, and I was just
34:20
checking recently on just the viewership alone for the fifth season, even the short time we were in it, there was over 8.2
34:26
minutes view, 8.2 billion minutes viewed. Wow. Staggering numbers. So, you know, it it’s hard to quantify
34:32
what that reach was just by seeing our product uh, and the association of it in
34:37
the show itself. Yeah. Um, so that’s incredible. Yeah. just one takeaway from you know what otherwise was a failure. Um but you
34:46
know to be able to reflect on that and and see the positives that came out of that failure again I think that kind of
34:52
summizes failing forward uh and finding that perspective in I think perspective
34:58
is is so so important especially when you’re failing. It also gave us experience in building a modular setup
35:05
and we’ve actually taken ideas from that setup and we’re now implementing them in different ways but for other businesses
35:12
that are successful and it’s working out really well for them. So all these little things that you learn when you’re
35:17
in the moment man you can get down on yourself but in future you look back and think okay well grew from that.
35:23
Yeah. I mean there’s and I’m sure you’ve been through similar situations too, but you think about our industry and uh
35:29
different rides and innovations and I I would argue that more often and more
35:35
often than not uh a lot of companies not just in our industry but across all industries when they have failures or
35:41
products fail or innovations whatever they may be a lot of them close that folder and do everything they can to
35:46
burn it, shred it and never look back on it. Yeah. Um, and I think that is all, you
35:52
know, all boils boils down to again perspective on it and, uh, just sort of your mentality as a business, uh, and
35:58
and our leadership. Uh, and I think being able to to really boil that down to what can we take from this? What can
36:05
we build off of it? You know, obviously, how can we work not to make those mistakes again? Of course, that’s that’s
36:10
sort of paramount. Um, so again, I think it really is important to to be a little
36:16
bit more raw and open with with failures. Uh, and just I mean
36:22
I could go onto a real soap box with this, but I just feel like the younger generation now they don’t know what
36:28
failure is. And I feel like there’s a lot of especially because they’re so immersed
36:33
online and you’re only seeing the perfect side of what people show on Instagram and
36:39
we we are insulated by technology. Um and while there obviously are so many
36:44
benefits to technology and and I could go down a rabbit hole about how I don’t want to conform to AI and Hannah’s
36:50
working on getting me set up with a chat GBT account. Um I I feel like especially
36:56
our youth, but I mean even older I mean we see our parents and and people that just doom scroll endlessly on TikTok and
Delivering Standout Experiences in Today’s Market
37:02
things like that. I mean people are lacking real world experience now. We see that in the younger generation’s
37:08
lack of ability to communicate uh face to face with others. I you can boil this down to a lot of different things but I
37:14
do think that our younger generation is lacking that just real world experience
37:21
and real world failure. Yeah. Uh and the inability to to fail first and foremost just by getting out there
37:28
and getting experience and trying things. Uh and then like we’re talking about right now, failing forward, learning to
37:34
fail forward and talk about it and talk about it. Talk about it. And I want to shake every young person that I
37:41
see younger than me. Obviously, I know I technically probably still qualify as a young person to a lot of people, but and
37:49
just try and bring that out of them to just get out there, take some action,
37:54
get out there, do something that you’re uncomfortable with. And again, I credit so much to
38:00
that to our parents. So both mom and dad uh both being like super supportive but letting us go out there and make a ton
38:06
of mistakes and and fail while also being in the background being super supportive as parents but letting us
38:12
make those mistakes and fail and just continue to encourage the fact that you know we’re not going to be here to hold your hand through it. You have
38:18
to learn to figure these things out. There’s there’s so much handholding I feel like that’s going on right now and the technology just doesn’t
38:25
doesn’t help it in my opinion in so many ways where it does help in a number of ways to help you know optimize people’s
38:31
experience and ability to grow I feel like it’s also sheltering a lot of people from from that growth the real
38:37
world growth yeah I think like what’s so interesting about this conversation for me is one
38:42
because you guys are in this business it’s been around for so many years like mine you know um I think you might have
38:49
10 years or so on me on our business. Maybe maybe this old guy.
38:54
But you know what I think is interesting is there’s a lot to your point with the
38:59
young the younger generation and and even just in general. I mean I can tell
39:05
you like I I’ve been Kunayappa for almost 30 years, right? And seeing
39:11
different people show up. But if I’m being honest about myself and my business, it’s been through several
39:18
iterations. Not only because of failure, because listen, if you’re in a family business, and
39:26
while my founder was not family, um he was family. Yeah.
39:31
I mean, he he gave me an opportunity that somebody who cares about you would do,
39:36
right? And want to see you succeed. Yeah. I mean, he’s family and my kids call him Uncle Steve. though. I mean,
39:42
he’s family. Family, but when I when I we’re just not blood, but we’re family,
39:48
you know, but at the same time, I think about like how many different iterations our business has had over the years and
39:53
and not just in products cuz like you being inventors and having to create the
39:58
next generation of products that you have, we’ve had a very similar experience, but I feel like the business
Resilience: Getting Back Up After Failing
40:04
has become different versions of itself. I’ve become different versions of myself
40:11
and most people don’t stick around somewhere long enough to see that happen. Do you ever go back and see an email
40:17
from 10 or 15 years ago and be like I wrote that? Why why would I write that?
40:22
I listen I just look the first few shows I did Yeah. Yeah. for Live with Sandre and I’m like
40:27
they’re cringe. There’s just no nice way of saying that. Right. But, you know, you you have to be
40:35
kind of to your point, you have to be okay with beginning and you have to be okay with starting.
40:41
You have to be okay with failing. And one of the things that I really love about my mentor and our founder, who is
40:46
family to me, he always Yeah. Stevie, he’s awesome. He would always
40:52
be okay with me failing so long as I was able to take responsibility for that and get better because that’s all you can
40:58
really ask of people. And I think that’s what’s so beautiful about being in business for a long time, for
41:04
generations, and then watching the people you care the most about grow alongside the business, right?
41:10
Yeah. And it’s so cool to just kind of hear that mirrored in the two of
41:15
you. I wish Tiff was here. I was like, “Wait a second. Where is she
41:23
right now?” Like I wish Kyle I wish Kyle was here, too. Next time we’ll do the full trio. Yeah,
41:29
because he adds a Kyle is our our comedic quick wit. He’s he keeps us laughing always.
41:36
Kyle’s got oneliners just stored in a Is Kyle the oldest?
41:41
He’s the oldest closet with skeletons and other things that he probably shouldn’t say out loud, but man, that’s he’s so funny.
41:47
I feel like that’s how Tiffany would describe me.
41:53
But I love that. Well, I uh Yeah, I I love all of us. And even like I feel like I can say this to you guys, even
41:59
with my kids, you know, when we chose a private school for them, we chose a school where there was no homework,
42:06
right? That they were free to learn and fail and do the things that they wanted to do. And
42:11
and uh my kids have been at least my oldest has been coming to with me to a lot of IPA networking events. So she’s
42:20
she’s showing up at these events, but she’s been around this for so long. But
42:25
also like just for me even with the education that they had, I wanted them
42:30
to be able to have those experiences you were talking about that so many young people don’t get to have today. And also
42:37
I didn’t want to have to do homework after a long day of work or you know
42:42
it’s there’s I’m sure like me you guys probably have 80 100 hour work week sometimes. Yeah.
42:48
So how do you do homework and still keep the peace in your family? Right. That was a hard one for me.
42:54
Yeah. Bless bless my husband. We’ve we’ve divvied up the work. He takes the math and sciences and then I do the the
Balancing Parenthood and Business Ownership
43:00
language arts and the readings. What am I What am I going to take on? Let me take you through the school of
43:06
hard. It’s hard. I know it’s hard. Well, because we’re my husband and I are both in the business. So, it was like, okay,
43:12
we got to find a school where there’s no homework. Yeah. Cuz we wanted to be together with our kids, not
43:18
working more, if that makes sense. We really had to decide how we spend our time. It does. Yeah. And I’m sure
43:24
just as you shared your kids going to IPA, you’re giving them other experiences that they can learn from in
43:30
the real world. And as our kids get older, I I see each one of us doing that
43:35
with our own kids, taking them out to these events and traveling with us and giving them a different education.
43:41
Yeah, it’s it’s really cool that you guys include them in so much. And well, I think like you said, it’s just
43:48
so important that you want to be present for your kids. And we’re obviously
43:53
I would say we’re we’re super lucky just like you talked about with Tiffany and and balancing schedules with each other
43:58
and helping out with kids and schedules and things like that. Um I think obviously we’re really lucky in that
44:05
regard. Uh but you know, it affords you that time to be able to be present with your kids, but at the same time you have
44:11
to, you know, that has to be front of mind. I think for everybody you have to consciously turn it off because you can definitely get sucked
44:17
into let me just check this one more email. Let me just send this one more WhatsApp. Guilty of that so often. So often. And I
44:23
mean you we all watch our kids grow up so fast. I mean mine are so young but
44:28
still just in the last few years I’m know I’m preaching to the choir. You just watch it happen so fast. U and I
44:34
think again just helping our youth more. We need parents that want to be more present too. So, we have to we have to
44:41
work together as a family. Um, and again, we’re super super lucky to be able to work together as a family and
44:46
have that latitude to be able to work together with each other and lean on each other so that we can be present for our kids. Uh, and help maybe to foster
44:55
that that next generation. Yeah, I think it’s awesome. Without pushing it. Without pushing it, but
45:00
we’ll push it. But but you know what? Maybe we’ll push it. I don’t even have to ask. And sometimes my kids will have the best idea that on
45:08
something I’m trying to solve. So it’s just you never know what’s going to happen to including them in things and and yeah,
45:14
maybe they don’t want to take over the company, but they might still be able to contribute in a way that makes sense for
45:20
them, right? So do you see your kids
45:26
coming on full or I mean my youngest for sure says he is. Okay. Like so it’s kind of
45:32
he’s like, “Mom, I’m going to have your job.” Yeah. Right. And you know, and and and when people ask me like I remember even
45:38
being a kid, so I’ve always been interested in business. Now whether or not I thought I was going to go into
45:43
tech, I I didn’t know that as a kid, but I also grew up when there was no tech,
45:49
right? So there was no technology. So I I I forgive myself for that, but you
45:55
know, when other people would be playing house with their friends, I’d be like the businesswoman
46:00
and I had like I owned all the businesses and and I would and everybody always thought that was weird, but that
46:07
made sense, right, for me now. What makes sense and so my youngest is very
46:12
much into the business and making contributions. And I do think it’s
46:17
important, you know, for any family business listening to this, like you’ve got to let kids help.
46:24
Yeah. So they don’t feel like you’re just gone, right? And that they don’t they’re not they
46:30
don’t they they don’t matter in the equation of this business. Cuz that’s one of the things I I learned was that
46:36
if I’m going to leave my kids for 3 months out of the year, which is what my Marriott app says I’m spending, isn’t
46:42
that crazy? In a hotel room, we’re in a very similar. Yeah. I want them to know that
46:47
I’m not leaving them. I’m going off on this awesome mission of helping other families have
46:52
incredible times and make memories and all the things that are important to them, but they’re helping me too because
46:58
there’s there are contributions that they can make at their age. Yeah. We recently um are developing a
47:05
new product called Snorkel Drift and it’s a towed snorkel ride system and we
47:10
wanted to test out an element of the product and so we went to our local lake and I brought my son with me and I was
47:17
with my dad so we had three generations and we were all in the lake testing the new product
47:22
on our family boat and so my son just felt so special that he got to be involved in testing the very first and
47:28
telling me what he thought. I was asking him questions. How did it feel? What did you think? How could we change it to
47:33
make it better for a child of your size, you know? So, it made him feel special and important and involved.
47:39
And that’s a spark. That’s a spark. Yeah. Well, my youngest Billy, he’s my personal assistant.
47:45
Love that. That he like actually tells people that that’s his job is great. And he has a LinkedIn page
47:52
person. He doesn’t have he doesn’t have a LinkedIn page yet, but he he definitely tells his brother and sister,
47:59
I’m the personal assistant. I’ll take care of that. Yes. So, I love that. Mom, your bags. I got them.
48:05
I I I love this. I love this conversation so much because it just hits so much home for me and and heart,
48:13
right? Like, this is uh it’s really neat being in a business and and like I said, a lot of people
48:19
don’t get to see businesses grow like this for generations. So, I’m I really
48:25
appreciate you guys sharing your story. Before I let you know, I gotta know because there is some of the best hair
48:32
on this show right now that I think I’ve ever hair right here that I’ve ever
48:38
known. Yeah, we all have on this show. I think as the kids say, I think we’re all kind of a vibe.
48:44
We’re we’re a vibe, but I got to know is the mullet is it a mindset?
Is the Mullet a Mindset?
48:50
It I I feel like it might be almost too much a part of my my identity now.
48:56
Sandra to the point where my wife’s like, “Are you do you think you’ll ever cut it off?” And I always say, “Well,
49:02
when my daughter tells me, then then I will.” She asked me to cut it off. And actually, just the other day, I think I
49:07
was telling you, I was just joking and I I told my daughter, I I said, “Hey, do you you know, do you want daddy to cut
49:13
his hair?” And she goes, “Yeah.” I was like, “All right, so maybe you’re not going to make the decision right now.”
49:20
It was, you know, I, believe it or not, I’ve I’ve had a mullet on and off since 2013,
49:27
a long time. And it was it was an identity. It was a rugby thing. I that’s what I
49:33
would tell people that I talked up to. And then I retired and stopped playing rugby. And I realized that I can’t say
49:38
that anymore. And yeah, I feel like honestly it’s just kind of a bit of my identity. I don’t
49:44
know what my neck would look like without this. Nice little tan line. And I’ll like I’ll go like this and joke around to my wife
49:49
and she’s like mind. But we always joke at shows. Someone will come to the booth and be like, “Oh yeah, you’re meeting the one with the
49:56
mullet over there or the one with the curly red hair.” So they’re nice identifiers. I will do anything to help draw
50:02
attention to my family and our business. Oh, believe me, I I have a white shirt.
50:07
This This is my hair. This is not dyed. And I always laugh and say that uh when
50:14
I retire I’m dying it because I I can dye it now because nobody would be able to find me.
50:20
That’s how people find me. But I love it. I love that it’s you know business
50:25
in the front, global operations in the back. There you go. Sandra, I’m taking that with me. I am
50:32
taking that one with me. I like it. It’s I I just really appreciate this
50:37
conversation with the two of you. Thank you so much for coming here and being and any last thoughts, you know, before
50:43
we wrap this up cuz this has been really fun. I could keep going forever. I know. I feel like I mean I I really didn’t want it to end,
Outro & Closing Thoughts
50:49
but um Oh gosh. I think if there’s if there’s something that anybody can take
50:54
away from this just complete broadstroke, broad spectrum, not a part of a family business, I think is that
51:01
resilience is probably one of the most important things in my opinion in business.
51:06
uh and and I think one of the biggest ways that you can become more resilient for anyone listening is perspective. I
51:14
think having and understanding a greater perspective uh and being able to take a
51:19
step back and looking at you know little issues or or little ups and downs in your life with a little bit broader
51:25
spectrum a little bit broader view I think can can help people a lot more in personal life and business emotionally
51:31
psych you know psychologically you name it u I think perspective is one thing that’s taught me a lot uh and in our
51:38
business personally you name it so well thank you I think you touched on too and you said
51:43
more for the younger generation, but I think it applies to any age group is getting out of your comfort zone and
51:48
trying something new. We can get so comfortable in our life and our routine. And you don’t grow unless you try
51:54
something that is uncomfortable to you that you’ve never done before. And we were raised that way. Our dad
52:00
always pushed us to do new and crazy things. And I think we’ve carried it on in our own personal growth and we’re now
52:07
doing it with our children too, encouraging them to get out of their comfort zone. Yeah, I love that because also I think in family business, you
52:14
know, you have to be I mean in general, human beings need to be okay with being new
52:20
and beginning and that’s scary for everybody, but there is something really
52:26
nice about doing that with people who love you. Yes. Because you know you’re going to get the
52:33
real feedback, the good, the bad, the ugly. Yeah. And you know you’re going to get the pressure that nobody else is going
52:38
to get. And you know what? your success, your growth is my success and vice versa. And you can’t get that unless you’re in a in
52:45
a family business. I mean, I’m running through a brick wall for you every day. Well, thank you both for being here.
52:52
Thanks the conversation.