Chapter 1: The Circle of Life in Water Parks
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Yeah, I’m excited about it because I know that you have been in the industry 40 years. 40 plus. Yeah.
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Plus years. Wow.
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I uh I came in sort of the mid to late ‘7s and then uh yeah, the rest has been been
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a journey. And indeed now we’re starting to see for youth experience some of the children of that second generation are doing work experience. So we had a
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couple work this in the summer coming over to understand what it’s like with with with a few friends. So it it’s it
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makes the process the the the circle of life. It it makes it meaningful. It it gives it a
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Yeah, I love that. I love that cuz I’m second generation.
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Sometimes you say, “Oh, it was lucky.” Well, luck is where opportunity and preparation come together.
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That’s cool. And I I think one of the things I like about what you’ve you’ve mentioned kind of a theme throughout this conversation is the relationships
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were critical in solving the problems for the people that you were serving.
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All right, Roger. Yes. Welcome to Live with Sandre. Thank you for being here with me today. Thank you for inviting me.
Chapter 2: Introduction: Meet Roger Currie
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I appreciate you coming all the way out from the UK.
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Well, I came from the horseshoe actually, so it wasn’t such a stretch.
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That’s right. We have to tell the audience that we are at the WWA.
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We do, which is quite a meaningful location actually for us, isn’t it? And the short time we’ve known each other
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and the sort of topic matter that we’re going to cover. Yeah, I’m excited about it because I know that you have been in the industry 40 years.
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40 plus. Yeah. Plus years. Wow.
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I uh I came in sort of the mid to late ‘7s and then uh yeah, the rest has been been a journey.
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Well, I’d love to know like if we can take it back to the 70s, like what was that thing that got you started in the industry?
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Interesting. And it’s all since we discussed this sort of approach about um reflecting over that period of time and
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the way in which relationship has played quite a major role. Um I’ve I’ve sort of
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been analyzing how how that did actually uh come about. Um it it started for me
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um just would maybe just flicking back a little bit when I was at school. Um and
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then when I went through sort of my the education years, my family life have all been very much relationship driven. Um
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many of those friends that I formed in my teens are are still friends and you know we we’ve we’ve grown together. My
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my uh life has hasn’t dragged me too far away from that home base. Um I’m close to my siblings. We all live within about
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10 milesi of each other. not not by intent but just the way that uh it’s come about. All my children, their
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families, they’re they all live close to us. So that that has been I think an outcome of of of what we clearly go
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about trying to to do. So I left um school um when I was 18 and I worked in
Chapter 3: From Hospitals to Water Treatment
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a hospital for a while at the time. I I flirted with the police force when I was 16. Nearly went in as a cadet, but they
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said, “No, no, give that a rest. Come back as a maybe as a graduate entry.
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That that will probably be the best way for you to go.” By the time I got round to doing that, I’d really moved on. And I was really into hospitals, having worked for two of the summer locations.
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is a friend of mine. Father was the chief porter there. So he got us a job where literally being a hospital we were working our way around from geriatrics
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to the kitchens to the morty to the maternity ward all of that which was it was a great environment and it was all
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to do with that teamwork of the of the health service. You know everybody there for a a reason greater than than what
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the individual components were. And I I just love that atmosphere. And um it was a nurses training hospital. It was it
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was a really nice vibrant uh place to be. And in that time I’d I was intending
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because I did all the wrong exams to go into medicine. I was looking at the management side of it. And by the time I got to the point of having got the
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experience of working around these various areas, um I had realized that whilst there was a huge relationship
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base to the dayto-day delivery of helping people who were sick and making them better, the management of that tended not to be so relationship build.
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It was more removed. It was more corporate. It was more faceless. And that was the part I just didn’t feel probably was suited to me. And so I was
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pontificating on this one evening. I went out for a drink with a friend and my old careers master from the school.
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He used to tease me about, you know, have you saved the world yet, Curry sort of thing, the police, the hospitals. And I was saying, well, it’s it’s not going
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the way that I was expecting it to. And he said, you really ought to try just go into look look at some the private sector of business. You you might find a
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home there. And one of the places I end up going to see was uh a meeting with Adrien White, now Sir Adrien White. Um
Chapter 4: Joining Bywater in 1976
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and he was just happy to talk about what by water the company had formed about 10 or 10 or so years before about what what
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they did about water treatment about how that applied and they had a section that dealt the company was formed as a swimming pool company. Um so it’s his it
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base was in swimming pools but by then it had moved into tertiary sewage treatments and water treatments of other type but he was saying that um he was
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looking for people always on the lookout for people and he said I think you would do very well with us here and he said
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I’d like you to be thinking about maybe becoming a sales engineer. And I said I’m not not a salesman. He goes well you are. You’ve just sold yourself to me. So
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I I I think that is your bent where where you would be. And he said the engineering, don’t worry. We we’ve got a
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ton of engineers here that that know their stuff backwards. Your job is to basically interpret that, understand it, but you don’t have to do that. We’ve got
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other people that that do that side of it. And so that’s how it started. Um 1976
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I began and the first thing they did was put me on a site, gave me a shovel and told me to dig out a filter that was if
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you ever seen these things they’re about 10 ft diameter about the same high and they every now and again you got to clear the filter out and in those days
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it was good old manual climb in and dig it out and that’s what I did. So I know all about cleaning out filters.
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I love that. I love that story. I didn’t realize that uh that it went all the way back to the hospitals. You ended up
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working in water treatment for pools. Yeah.
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And then you mentioned early on how important the relationships that you have with your family and the people around you are. Totally. Yeah.
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And I know that that is a big part of our industry and something that probably brought the next phase of where you were going
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forward. So tell me a little bit about maybe the first time you attended a WWA because we could start there because I know that’s a big
Chapter 5: Discovering the WWA at Palm Springs
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Yeah, we we we can I think it’s quickly just worth covering that Bywater had already started in the leisure industry.
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It had built some of the very first mean part party to building some of the first water parks as we we now know them to be
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built. Jangle in Indonesia, the first ocean park in Hong Kong, the Elnasa Club
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in Dubai, and and that gave me an understanding. I can’t take any credit for any of those, but I was being
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brought up in a fraternity that that knew it backwards. Um, so I worked my
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way up up um up the company and then with a colleague who later became my
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business part uh partner, a guy called Keith Palmer, very unfortunately died a couple of years ago, but we had the best
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part of 40 years on and off work working together. We were given charge of the leisure division. um were made directors
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and just in my early 30s and they said right just just go and show us what you can do you know the company’s not making huge amounts of money just just see what
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you can do and so that’s how it started and on the back of that when I was sort of just going around meeting people understanding what’s going on I bumped
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into Al Turner the founder of the WWA um at Glenn Eagles he he’d come over on a on a mission with a few other people I
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knew from the UK that they were there taking part in this. Met Al um he explained to me what the WWA was all
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about and u mentioned to me the next uh convention was going to be at Palm Springs that following autumn and to
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come along and that’s what I did. And I have to say in some ways I’ve never looked back from that. That that was a
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that was an epiphany. Yeah. know it was a and again it’s a case of just working your way through um meeting people
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understanding it and I’ve I’m very convinced that if you do the right thing with the right people long enough then
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something occurs circumstance presents itself a task emerges and if you’re with in that moment being out there with
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people that they’re the opportunities that that grew and out of that many of the landmark projects I was part part of
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the process for that that’s that’s how they evolved.
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Well, I’m curious before we started the interview today, you mentioned something about looking at your career
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and the years and how you’ve navigated all of that.
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You said something that I thought was interesting about um because I think a lot of people find themselves in this industry. I mean, my first park I ever did with Gate Master was a water park.
Chapter 6: Nobody Plans to Work in Water Parks
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Mhm.
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And that’s how I ended up in water parks in 25 years ago. I never saw myself
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doing that work, but it became the work that I did. And so I it sounds that
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you’re you found yourself moving in that direction as well. But you said something about how
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you didn’t maybe know where you were going, but it was very instinctual for you. And that resonates with me because I feel very similar. I don’t know how it
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happened, but I just followed where I was being pulled.
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Totally. And and that’s where we we spoke about my marriage. That’s a relationship that survived. Good heavens.
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40 46 47 years. my wife of Judy’s got a very very very patient temperament. Um
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but then you know the the the three boys as a as a family of five we always have stayed very relationally close. You know
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there’s it we we wear our hearts and our sleeve sort of thing and three daughters-in-law have blended very
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nicely into that. seven grandchildren now. And you know, so that just sets um
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a tone that when you find yourself doing that in your business life or in my case in my church life, in my faith life, uh
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with whole host of friends, many of which have been long-term friends, it’s almost a gravitation. It almost becomes a lifestyle.
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When you get to the other end of your career, trying to work out what retirement’s meant to be and all of this, that that’s another another story alto together. But I guess it’s because
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of this strong relation relational outcome of what I do and how I do it and
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who I do it with is one reason I’m still quite comfortable doing it today. And it generally it works quite nicely along
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with my family life and the other things which probably are dearest to our hearts. Um how long it stays for, I don’t know. But right now it’s it’s
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exciting. It’s good fun and I’m still doing it with a lot of people I enjoy working with. Yeah, I love that. I I love the the theme of the the
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relationship part of of what you’re what you mentioned. I mean, I I feel the same. I feel like the people I work with
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are family to me, you know, probably more so than my real family.
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We spend more time and more Yeah. And and I say all the time, especially with the founder of our company who is
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family. M we I say all the time that you know I want to work with people I enjoy if I have to spend most of my life doing this
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and I’ve been very lucky to do that and it sounds like you have too very much and it’s you know there it is a good thing that we’re doing this on
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the back of a WWA convention it’s probably my 30 I missed a couple co didn’t help with one year and then I was
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committed for something else traveling for another but I’ve probably done 35 odd shows so I’m seeing those same
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people um we bump into each other London for example at Iappa quite a lot of those guys were all there so you see you
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see them a lot but WWA the when I turned up in Palm Springs I I was completely
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apart from Al I knew nobody but the whole environment the whole ethos of the WWA is this wonderful inclusive thing
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where by the time I left four or five days later and finding yourself having a drink with the guy that just happened to
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be running the Disney parks, for example. I bumped into a guy um called Rick Faber, who at the time was one of the um leaders of the Wet N Wild group.
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And uh he said, “Oh, you buy water.” He said, “You guys actually helped us out.” I said, “We did.” He said, “Yeah.” He said, “Look, if you if you’re flying
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back through um Orlando, come in, come and see us, and we I’ll we’ll talk a bit more.” Um and I did and I’ll I’ll come
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back to that one in a minute. But I was find you were totally embraced and it’s still today if you went out on that um
Chapter 7: The Inclusive Spirit of the WWA
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show floor. Incidentally, anybody probably over the age of 40 would just like you and me would wonder as to how we actually got into this industry. Very
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few people set out to I’m I’m going to start working in water parks.
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Frankly, nobody knew what a water park was um back in in in those days.
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it in. It was part of a wonderful entrepreneurial people very eager to share with each other their their
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understanding. The WWA was formed out of insurance and safety that that was its driver to make sure people that came to
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these facilities were safe. And there’s always been this sharing of this is something that we went wrong for us and
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it’s not something we want to see anybody else do. and here’s something here are things we’ve done and these have worked very well. If you went
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around any of those educational sessions this week, you’ll be find it’s all about the sharing and the inclusiveness
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um of it. So it’s no it’s a pleasure to keep coming back. And
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out of those people that I met in 1988, sadly several have passed now. Um that
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you know they would have some healthfully into their 80s, maybe a bit older, others sadly um circumstances it
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took them but there’s there’s probably still a good core of people including um many of the people I’ve I’ve been working with most of that time that were
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still around. And that that is again unusual I think. Yeah. For an industry.
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Yeah, I agree.
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We we’re seeing a lot more corporatization. Some of the size of projects we’re doing are just massive globally and and indeed in the states
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it’s become much bigger business. So there is this sort of much more structured approach to some of it. But
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underneath that that core of the can do, where do we go next? How do we work together on this? what what’s what’s what’s the next thing we’re we’re doing.
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Um I gave a presentation at I think you you were there um about the trends of the industry and that’s all tracking
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over this period of time and trying to understand what’s going on where we are and where is this leading us so it it’s
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it’s inbuilt it’s in it’s in the DNA of this industry and it applies same as IPA just tend to be a lot bigger a lot more
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other things going on but WWA has got that heartbeat of everybody here is here because of of water parks.
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No, I love that. I I I mentioned to you my first water park. Do you know the Birches?
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No, they uh they they own Birch Cabinets and they they they opened a water park. It was a family in Waterl, Iowa. That was the first and
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I’m from Los Angeles and and my boss sent me out to this water park to start working with them. And it’s interesting because back then people
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didn’t use computers in business yet. So we were teaching them many many of the parks that we were working with were
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learning how to use computers for the first time and watching that evolution happen. Um and being able to see it happen for the
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first time for a lot of the parks that we worked with was a really cool experience for me. I think that’s kind of why I’m excited to talk to you because you’ve seen
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probably many of these different evolutions throughout the water parks over the years and even where it’s going like you you mentioned the um the water park forum in London.
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Yeah.
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Some of the innovation that’s happening in these water parks was pretty mind-blowing.
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It is. And again, generally that is still being shared. is out there for others to to come in.
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There’s a few things obviously that are commercially sensitive and then that um you know that that you have
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to handle. But the when you talk about this the majority of my company will tell you that my computer knowledge is
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probably as it was back in 1974 um or 70 whenever it was before there weren’t computers. There weren’t credit
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cards. when you traveled, you went with travelers checks. In Europe in those days, every different country had a different currency. So, I was going
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around with like a money lender with money from French Franks, German marks, Spanish facas. Um, it was a very, very
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different world. And growing up in that, you know, I I was probably 20 when one day they said, “All right, we need you
Chapter 8: From Nigeria to Venezuela: A Global Career
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to go over to Lagos, Nigeria.” And that was a tough place to travel. It’s it yeah it still can be quite challenging today
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but in those days it was a it was a very it was a c a country that was doing well a lot going on there mainly this is on the water just the water treatment side
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and and the sewage side but that that was you know you go there and you’re in a different world you you couldn’t phone home and say hey I can’t find the taxi
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where is it you just basically had to to to to work your way through it and that was a good life uh life lesson
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So I don’t get lost in airports. So that’s that’s one that’s one thing I uh that was one skill set I learned from from that.
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But yeah no it was it it was a different world. It’s a different world now and who knows in another 20 years what
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what’s going to be coming along. But um yeah.
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Well I love that you’ve had so many adventures because of this industry.
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You actually just reminded me I forget often about this one. I I helped open a water park in Venezuela and that was a whole other world because
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we had to ride in armored vehicles and we had to stay with our people and it was just I was a I was very young at the time.
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Yeah.
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So I didn’t have and and we didn’t have all the information that we have today.
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So I don’t even think I think maybe we had flip phones at the time that we went out there. But it was interesting because, you know, you’re having to
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learn firsthand what the world is like without any information. And that was that experience for me.
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It’s one of the reasons I love doing what I do because I get to just have those wild experiences that a lot of industries don’t get to do because we
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are global, right? As an industry, there’s attractions everywhere. No, in Nigeria, you lived in compounds.
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You had armed guards, you know, kidnapping.
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um westerners was a was source of income quite frankly um and it it was a different environment you know I was
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stopped at the airport uh trying to leave a soldier said can I see your passport I gave him my passport he didn’t even look at it he just put it in
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his pocket and then you know it’s get get some n out to get it back and
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again I’d been versed in that and they said when you when this happens understand that a lot of these soldiers have probably haven’t been paid for a
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Well, they were supporting families. It was part of if you’re going into these environments, you know, you perhaps need to be aware of what you’re going into and understanding that that locality.
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And, you know, again, that that was a a learning curve. The guy next to me refused to pay the guy anything. The
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soldier just went off and then came back after the guy’s flight had left, gave his passport back. Yeah, that looks fine. He goes, “I miss a flight.” on the side.
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So, yeah, again, you sometimes you just got to really understand what you’re doing and how you’re doing. Yeah.
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Yeah. Well, we actually had a guy kidnapped on that one. Did you? Yeah. Did you get him back?
Chapter 9: A Kidnapping in the Field
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Well, it’s okay. But it’s a funny Can I tell you this story? Of course you can.
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So, my sharing it with a few other people, but it’s all right. And and and I’ll just start with saying so I was I was the
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youngest and only women on the entire team cuz in a tech company there just weren’t back then a lot of females on the team and so I know I
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annoyed this guy for whatever reason. I probably talked too much but that’s what got me here. So I guess that wasn’t such a bad deal.
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Well the one that got kidnapped one that got kidnapped he I he was not my biggest fan. and we didn’t get along
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and he gets kidnapped and I guess the a police officer who had told him to get into a vehicle
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and they called back to Gatemaster the you know the founder of the company and the founder of the company says I’ll pay
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it but it’s up to you and I’m like why would they give me that decision I didn’t even like the guy and
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we ended up of course we got him back and I think it was like 10 It was a lot of money back then. It is.
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Right. So, we got him back and uh he still didn’t like me after that.
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But so that happened again. Would What would the outcome be?
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Well, you know what? I feel bad. I can’t talk too bad about him. He’s passed since. But he uh it was an interesting experience because we again you’re you’re just out learning these things.
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you can’t, you know, back back then we didn’t have working phones.
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If I was going to call somebody, I would have to be on the compound in my hotel room and and so it was very complex back then to navigate. But it’s interesting because I
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hadn’t thought about that story till just now.
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That’s a good point because in in relationships, they’re not always good relationships. Sometimes we’re in a very intense environment.
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We’re in some parts we’re competing or whatever. So you you you can get situations where the relationship is
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like anything any form of any any marriage you got to work at it and when things do go wrong you got two choices.
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You can either let the thing fester and become bigger or you can sit down and resolve it. And in the main that’s
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always my preferred option to and there’s a several guys out there that probably for those moments they I wasn’t their favorite Yeah.
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person. Um, but I would say, you know, 40 years on, we’re we’re still talking.
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I don’t think there’s anybody out there that would even want me kidnapped. I don’t know. We’ll find out. But I wouldn’t wish it on anybody. I’m sure
25:05
25 minutes, 5 seconds
that was scary for him. But it, you know, at the end of the day, just to your point, like you want people you the relationships are important because you
25:12
25 minutes, 12 seconds
want people to have your back in those situations. M and there are people on my team that have been with me longer than I probably even been with the company that I I would gladly go to battle with.
25:23
25 minutes, 23 seconds
You’ve got to do what you think is right. Yeah.
25:26
25 minutes, 26 seconds
Um and there’s a way to do it. You know, you you can do it through a negotiation
25:33
25 minutes, 33 seconds
um using the good things of the relationship you’ve had with that person or people um to to enable it. But uh and
25:42
25 minutes, 42 seconds
I guess there were two little things came to uh came to mind there. Um the first one is I was trying to analyze
25:51
25 minutes, 51 seconds
what over the this this period of relationship I’ve what I bring to the table and I think it’s I’m the
25:59
25 minutes, 59 seconds
facilitator. So you set a a relationship without any end goal. you know, just because you get on well, you think the
26:07
26 minutes, 7 seconds
same and then things things develop or you recognize they’ve got a skill set you haven’t got, which is always a very important thing to to recognize and then
26:16
26 minutes, 16 seconds
eventually if you do that long enough things come together and it’s when they come together that is the moment I think
26:23
26 minutes, 23 seconds
I’ve managed to translate that uh in involve a team or being pulled in by another team in into a situation where
26:31
26 minutes, 31 seconds
there’s then a task to be done there’s a a project to be developed and you depending on those circumstances you you
26:39
26 minutes, 39 seconds
work as a team to deliver that and I I think my role in that generally has been to help facilitate that to retain the
26:47
26 minutes, 47 seconds
relationship quite often with the client and then you know across the team um itself and then see that through to a
26:54
26 minutes, 54 seconds
delivery again bearing in mind that I’m working with people very talented engineers very talented designers very
27:01
27 minutes, 1 second
talented architects the designers want me as far away from a workshop as they could possibly get me most of the time.
27:08
27 minutes, 8 seconds
Um that they do their thing. Um but yeah, I I think that for me is is probably what
27:16
27 minutes, 16 seconds
you know sometimes you say, “Oh, it was lucky.” Well, luck is where opportunity and preparation come together. And it’s then recognizing that’s happening.
27:27
27 minutes, 27 seconds
Sometimes you can it can come back to a story on that in a minute. um it can
27:33
27 minutes, 33 seconds
pass you by. Um and then knowing that um you’re with the right people, you pull the right team together and and then then you work.
27:44
27 minutes, 44 seconds
I’m smiling because I’m remembering Rick Faber I mentioned earlier. I did take up his offer. I did go into Weton World. I
27:52
27 minutes, 52 seconds
very briefly met the great man himself, George Malay, just as a hello, how do you do? Yeah, I remember and remember B
28:01
28 minutes, 1 second
water and what it what it was he had visited Janol and he had seen the lazy river working there and it had been
Chapter 10: The Lazy River Origin Story
28:10
28 minutes, 10 seconds
going probably it’s before I think he was he was preparing the Arlington project. So it was a few years gap between that starting and when George
28:18
28 minutes, 18 seconds
and his team delivered Arlington and they were needing some help to actually work out the hydraulics of how this was done. And he was told by the it was it
28:27
28 minutes, 27 seconds
was a by water job that they were the guys that worked all this through. And long story short he paid he he contacted by water or one of his team did and this
28:35
28 minutes, 35 seconds
would be before my time. This would probably been 7475 something like that.
28:41
28 minutes, 41 seconds
and two by water engineers went out, worked with the Wet and Wild team and their engineers for a few days to get this the profiles and everything else,
28:50
28 minutes, 50 seconds
the the pumping sorted and then came back and that was it. And that was what Rick remembered and what George remembered.
29:00
29 minutes
And I never had the heart to say to Adrian that when I found this out that essentially with the wet and wilds really becoming the the cornerstone, the
29:09
29 minutes, 9 seconds
the building block of what a lot of modern water day by water been paid to send two guys out came back and Adrian would have been
29:19
29 minutes, 19 seconds
beside himself. He he would have been right in there and and sorting something out. But yeah, so that was that was a story of the preparation and the
29:28
29 minutes, 28 seconds
opportunity perhaps not being taken. Um I hope he’s not watching this, but bygones are bygones.
29:37
29 minutes, 37 seconds
Yeah. But that’s cool. That’s that’s cool. And I I think one of the things I like about what you’ve you’ve mentioned kind of a theme throughout this
29:45
29 minutes, 45 seconds
conversation is the relationships were critical in solving the problems for the people that you were serving. Mhm.
29:53
29 minutes, 53 seconds
And being able to coordinate everybody, I think, is an important part of being strong with relationships, which clearly
30:00
30 minutes
you would have to be in order to have Yeah. Again, that that’s project managers that come. I think it’s knowing
30:07
30 minutes, 7 seconds
the right people to to bring in. As I say, very often by just having a drink with somebody, someone me, oh yeah,
30:15
30 minutes, 15 seconds
we’re looking at this job by the way, at the moment. Actually, it’s it’s one of you guys could probably help out. And you get given a lead that way. If I’m
30:22
30 minutes, 22 seconds
doing my job properly, it’s us finding that out, if not at the same time, may preferably a bit before about what this
30:30
30 minutes, 30 seconds
the project opportunities are. And again, that comes from network, that comes from people you’ve worked with before. Um,
30:38
30 minutes, 38 seconds
going the other thing I was just really going to bring into this com was the generational aspect. You know, I’m now
Chapter 11: The Generational Shift in Water Parks
30:46
30 minutes, 46 seconds
working with Nick Newman, having initially partnered up with um Chuck and and Randy when we pulled the Newman and
30:54
30 minutes, 54 seconds
what was my business that after I left by water, we ultimately formed with Keith Aqualure, the Newman and the Aqua came together and that’s what then
31:03
31 minutes, 3 seconds
really put my um working with Chuck directly on WTI and in all the stuff we’ve been doing over the last eight and
31:11
31 minutes, 11 seconds
10 years or so. Um, but there’s again there’s the the opportunities of was
31:20
31 minutes, 20 seconds
formed on a rel I met Chuck and Randy probably in 1988 very briefly you know it would have been a hello how you doing
31:27
31 minutes, 27 seconds
sort of thing and then we a couple of times then all the tamars by water they did what they were doing in mainly in in
31:36
31 minutes, 36 seconds
North America we were doing what we were doing in Europe and um uh the UK and
31:43
31 minutes, 43 seconds
then two things were happening. one, the American the initial surge of American outdoor water parks was becoming saturated and it was around about that
31:52
31 minutes, 52 seconds
time that the waterman um families had sold um their Noah’s Arc water park in
32:00
32 minutes
Wisconsin and were thinking what they could do as the next stage and they had the idea of putting together a water park directly inbuilt with with the
32:08
32 minutes, 8 seconds
hotel and that rolled on to become what the great wolf and the Kalahar is and and everything um else was. So, America
32:18
32 minutes, 18 seconds
was starting to go indoors and part of my role from what I was then doing in Europe and and to some degree in the Middle East was to try and find out all
32:27
32 minutes, 27 seconds
these rides and ideas that were being applied in outdoor situations to how we could actually bring them over and in the main applied them into indoor
32:34
32 minutes, 34 seconds
situations. And so the with that there’s a whole load of things like air handling and different types of water treatment.
32:41
32 minutes, 41 seconds
And when I did leave by water and I was just doing my own thing, Chuck and I started a lot more about talking about
32:48
32 minutes, 48 seconds
those experiences and that that’s what really brought us together. And out of that um an opportunity came up with um
32:56
32 minutes, 56 seconds
what was two swords then now the Merlin Group when they were looking to build the water park let’s build the second
33:03
33 minutes, 3 seconds
hotel and put the water park in at Splash Landings at Alton Towers and that process rolled through. Um, I introduced
33:11
33 minutes, 11 seconds
them to the concept that had now been refined by Great Wolf and there was a a dialogue between the the businesses and
33:18
33 minutes, 18 seconds
an understanding of how that factors and that was ultimately WaterTech were were pulled in. I was working alongside Chuck
33:27
33 minutes, 27 seconds
and from that you know a very strong working relationship and ethic. You know, we we just see things the the same
33:34
33 minutes, 34 seconds
way. Nick Newman in those days was probably in his teens. Um, so I I was aware of Nick. Um, and now of course
33:43
33 minutes, 43 seconds
Chuck’s, you know, managing to find a bit more time for himself, but still very much around. But Nick has then moved in. And so there’s a there’s it’s
33:51
33 minutes, 51 seconds
been a pleasure actually just working alongside seeing this second generational um thing become part and
34:00
34 minutes
seeing all those and and indeed all all those colleagues of a similar age. you see them mature back in in in the UK,
34:09
34 minutes, 9 seconds
you know, people that we employ employed as bright young teenagers and um early 20s, people we were employing for their
34:19
34 minutes, 19 seconds
their attitude as much as their engineering capacity, that’s obviously important, but people that could understand and work with us. They’ve now been with us the best part of 20 years.
34:28
34 minutes, 28 seconds
They’re now moving into the middle management of of the business. And just seeing this second J and and right
34:36
34 minutes, 36 seconds
across the industry. You know, you see it in in the all family based, you know, the the proslides, the whitewaters, the
34:43
34 minutes, 43 seconds
chutters, the hunters and in many other areas as well about this second generation of folk now becoming the
34:50
34 minutes, 50 seconds
leaders of the the industry and it it’s great to see, great to be part of. And indeed, now we’re starting to see for
34:57
34 minutes, 57 seconds
youth experience some of the children of that second generation are doing work experience. We had a couple work this in the summer coming over to understand
35:06
35 minutes, 6 seconds
what it’s like with with with a few friends. So, it it’s it makes the process the the the circle of life. It
35:13
35 minutes, 13 seconds
it makes it meaningful. It it gives it a Yeah, I love that. I love that because I’m second generation
35:22
35 minutes, 22 seconds
even though the founder was not family blood related. I mean, he he he was never married. He never had kids. I think
35:29
35 minutes, 29 seconds
No, he adopted you. He would I think he would hate if I said that he was that I’m the closest thing to a kid he’s ever had, but I know I am.
35:36
35 minutes, 36 seconds
Um taught me everything about what he knew about the business. And I think that’s really it’s interesting that you bring up the generational side of things
35:45
35 minutes, 45 seconds
because I have my kids working in the business.
35:48
35 minutes, 48 seconds
Maybe at some point you’ll hear from Leona. She works on the postp production side of the show.
35:53
35 minutes, 53 seconds
But you know, it’s great because she’s getting to learn from people like you who are coming on the show and sharing the information. But what I love about
36:01
36 minutes, 1 second
what you said about the the generations in this business, it’s it’s so true. You know, last night I went to dinner with a
36:07
36 minutes, 7 seconds
an old friend and a a client of ours that I think my sister he and my sister met
36:15
36 minutes, 15 seconds
at their first WWA together. It was both of their first. It had to have been 20 plus years ago.
36:24
36 minutes, 24 seconds
And you know, they they kept that relationship going for quite a few years. And then during the pandemic when
36:32
36 minutes, 32 seconds
nobody was opening parks and nobody was buying from us and we were losing a lot because being in technology, you know,
36:39
36 minutes, 39 seconds
we’re highly dependent on the revenue of the parks. He bought from us that year.
36:45
36 minutes, 45 seconds
And he was my he was our only sell for the entire year.
36:50
36 minutes, 50 seconds
Yeah. And that I think that that relationship had lasted you know se you know 10 I can’t do the math right now on the
36:57
36 minutes, 57 seconds
years but um but what’s interesting is watching even the two of them my sister and and he
37:04
37 minutes, 4 seconds
come up in the industry and now seeing him he mentioned to me he’s got 10 more years before he’s going to retire and then he’s passing it on to the next guy
37:13
37 minutes, 13 seconds
and there’s so much of that happening in our industry that I think is really unique to us but also I think there’s so much information.
37:22
37 minutes, 22 seconds
Yeah.
37:22
37 minutes, 22 seconds
In these generations of people that we have to keep. I mean, that’s what I’m hoping to to do today is in these conversations like what I’m having with you.
37:31
37 minutes, 31 seconds
It’s much more refined now. I mean, there’s much more professionalism, if that’s the right way. There’s much more
37:38
37 minutes, 38 seconds
known knowledge that you you can you can build on. What you have to remember is in those sort of early first 101 15 years, you know, before the the the
37:47
37 minutes, 47 seconds
Master Blasters and the Flow Riders and you know the Lockfell, Jeff Henry did a had a lot to do with developing that. A
37:56
37 minutes, 56 seconds
lot of that information I learned, I met them and we applied that for the first flow rider in Europe at Bur Summerland
38:03
38 minutes, 3 seconds
in Norway and then ultimately Wildi, which triggered a whole adventure in in in Dubai and and the Emirates that they
38:12
38 minutes, 12 seconds
all came from initial meetings and discussions with with with people and an understanding and knowing how all that
38:21
38 minutes, 21 seconds
could come together. I think they’re good examples of what what relationship is. And it’s not like you deliberately
38:29
38 minutes, 29 seconds
go out to, you know, I’m going to make you my friend and one day you might give me some work. It’s not that at all. It’s much more identifying with people where
38:37
38 minutes, 37 seconds
there’s a commonality of approach, a commonality of thinking, of trust, and that you only build up over a period of
38:44
38 minutes, 44 seconds
time. And when that then comes together, you and this is my one view, but you
38:51
38 minutes, 51 seconds
then see good things and big things happen.
38:54
38 minutes, 54 seconds
Yeah. and and throw into that I just give one um example of um way back in
39:01
39 minutes, 1 second
round about the the millennium um I we were doing some work with center parks and one of the managers duty managers I
Chapter 12: From Center Parcs to the Saudi Market
39:09
39 minutes, 9 seconds
work with there he um water park manager um work very well together and he just
39:17
39 minutes, 17 seconds
he was we were chatting I’d actually I think I’d come up to do a um presentation on water treatment or something like that and he got his team out and we we’re doing in that. And
39:25
39 minutes, 25 seconds
afterwards, we we were having a chat and I was talking about some of the stuff we were doing in the Middle East and he said, “Look, if you ever hear of anything that comes up, just just give
39:34
39 minutes, 34 seconds
me a shout. I’d really just like to see if that’s that could be for me.” Anyway, long story short, something did come up.
39:41
39 minutes, 41 seconds
I gave him the introduction to to this project. He went out, he interviewed, he got the job, and he’s never come back.
39:49
39 minutes, 49 seconds
He’s now controlling and developing some of the really leading edge projects going on in in the in the Saudi market.
39:57
39 minutes, 57 seconds
He moved over from from Dubai and with him a load of his colleagues, people again he’s worked with over the years
40:05
40 minutes, 5 seconds
that there’s there’s there’s a big family of water park operators, folks. Same with a load of guys from America.
40:12
40 minutes, 12 seconds
And I you know you because you’re forever meeting them and there’s too many names to mention and if I mention one I’m gonna get told off and not
40:20
40 minutes, 20 seconds
mention them all. But um whenever we’re working when when the Saudi markets start to to evolve a lot of the people
40:28
40 minutes, 28 seconds
had done their sessions and and times back in the Emirates. So a lot of those guys moved over. So it was like a whole
40:35
40 minutes, 35 seconds
industry moving over. We in the main we all knew each other. we’re having to apply it in a totally different way and a totally different market condition.
40:43
40 minutes, 43 seconds
Um, and it that is ultimately what where the in in in that geographical location what a lot of us are now doing. We’re
40:51
40 minutes, 51 seconds
applying stuff in some cases that’s never been done before. some of the the projects I briefly mentioned to you, there’s a lot of NDAs, so you can’t talk
40:59
40 minutes, 59 seconds
too much, but very large bodies of water now being created around big um residential and commercial developments
41:06
41 minutes, 6 seconds
which sell better for having waterfront properties where there’s no water. And so the whole process of bringing large quantities of water into a situation,
41:15
41 minutes, 15 seconds
how it’s designed, how you get that water, how you then maintain it, where all that goes forward, what that water’s used for, that is it’s it’s great. Yeah.
41:24
41 minutes, 24 seconds
Um I was on a call this morning actually on one of those projects and Nick was um he was doing most of the leg work. But
41:32
41 minutes, 32 seconds
some really groundbreaking stuff and uh yeah no it’s just this the circle the
41:39
41 minutes, 39 seconds
circle of life. It it it really is um an industry process and for me very much relationship.
41:50
41 minutes, 50 seconds
Yeah that’s so cool. And I love the relationship piece because I think Yeah, you’re right. I mean, you’ve gota I have a saying.
42:00
42 minutes
What’s that? That I want to do cool with cool people.
42:02
42 minutes, 2 seconds
But it’s true, you know, like that’s it’s you you said it that you don’t want to just make somebody your friend. You want to be a part of cool stuff
42:10
42 minutes, 10 seconds
and and I mean the stuff that you’re talking about is really cool. Mhm.
42:15
42 minutes, 15 seconds
It is. And again, it’s, you know, why why do you want to stop working um when this is still happening and it still
42:23
42 minutes, 23 seconds
feels right to do it? And that does tie in to sort of getting towards the end of the s of this this particular theme
42:31
42 minutes, 31 seconds
track is that it’s over those 40 50 years it’s not just me and the industry
42:38
42 minutes, 38 seconds
that has grown and and developed become older and wiser maybe maybe a bit wiser but my family
42:46
42 minutes, 46 seconds
life has done the same you know it’s grown it’s developed my friendship groups have have done the same
42:54
42 minutes, 54 seconds
the industry ry groups that I’m I’m working with that we’re all most of a certain age we’re all still there but
43:02
43 minutes, 2 seconds
there’s a whole wealth of new talent and new development coming underneath us but the thing that occurred to me today as I was just mulling on this was
43:11
43 minutes, 11 seconds
our clientele our guests have done exactly the same some of those families that would have gone to the the blizzard beaches and the
43:18
43 minutes, 18 seconds
typhoon lagoons and the wild uh wet and wilds you know back in the 70s slash into the 80s is they’re now bringing not
43:26
43 minutes, 26 seconds
just their children but their children are bringing their children. So the whole process of of of generational
43:33
43 minutes, 33 seconds
growth, what their expectations are are now being met by the generations of our
43:39
43 minutes, 39 seconds
teams, our industry. It it it’s it is it’s a course of of of life.
43:46
43 minutes, 46 seconds
Yeah, that’s a really cool thought.
43:49
43 minutes, 49 seconds
I appreciate that because it it is so true. Like I, you know, my part of why I love this industry so much is my
43:57
43 minutes, 57 seconds
grandfather, you know, he loved Disneyland with the same routine every single time. We always start with the tiki room. Yeah.
44:04
44 minutes, 4 seconds
And I take my kids and do that same thing every time.
44:09
44 minutes, 9 seconds
I even have been known to take people from Apple when we’re there to do this.
44:15
44 minutes, 15 seconds
I this last time we had a North American summit Disneyland and we we had some free time. and we were all going to go to Disneyland and I said, “Can we please
44:24
44 minutes, 24 seconds
I just can’t go into Disneyland and not do this thing. Will you guys do that for me?” And they did, which is really great. But
44:32
44 minutes, 32 seconds
just to your point, like we have generations of people who are coming to the parks that are sharing this over and over again.
44:39
44 minutes, 39 seconds
And that kind of makes me think of a question for you though with regards to like the innovation that’s happening. Mhm.
44:47
44 minutes, 47 seconds
Like I said, in London, there were a few times that some of the speakers were talking about what they were doing in their water parks and even
44:55
44 minutes, 55 seconds
seeing some of the the videos of some of the interactive things that are happening in the water parks. Do you see
45:02
45 minutes, 2 seconds
a lot of technology and what’s happening in water parks merging a lot more in the future?
45:08
45 minutes, 8 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean Nick and I did a presentation about what would the you know the next 5 10 years where is this
Chapter 13: The Future of Water Park Technology
45:16
45 minutes, 16 seconds
going and there comes a point where you know it’s infathomable. So we we took the approach of looking at some of the
45:23
45 minutes, 23 seconds
advanced technologies that are currently being applied as to what then could be done with them. Eye recognition for example and the virtual queuing and the
45:32
45 minutes, 32 seconds
you know all all those things that are currently happening where where where could that lead? Um, and so I think for
45:39
45 minutes, 39 seconds
me the the trends, um, if we’re talking technologies and new ideas, you know, again, out on out on the trade floor
45:48
45 minutes, 48 seconds
this week, you’re talking to people whose life that their careers are spent round developing new fusion rides, ways
45:57
45 minutes, 57 seconds
their rides can be applied differently, which is stuff that we love to get involved in as designers of the the water parts themselves to understand how
46:05
46 minutes, 5 seconds
this could fit in. We’re doing some projects at the moment where some of this technology um the the improvement of you know imagery underwater and
46:13
46 minutes, 13 seconds
things like this could could become really quite impressive. Um so I think that’s a that that that will happen.
46:21
46 minutes, 21 seconds
That is happening exactly where it ends up. I don’t know. And there’s probably some inventions currently not being
46:28
46 minutes, 28 seconds
used. Now it wasn’t so long ago that nobody knew how you could go uphill with water. Well, you know, Tom Lockerfeld
46:36
46 minutes, 36 seconds
came up with one solution that now, you know, the patents of all that have moved on. Um, and we’re now seeing other
46:43
46 minutes, 43 seconds
people come up with different developments of that. And again, that’s all good for the industry. It’s all good, positive stuff. We’re now seeing
46:51
46 minutes, 51 seconds
wave surfing has become a huge thing. A lot of projects we’re working on at the moment are where we’ve got these very
46:58
46 minutes, 58 seconds
large bodies of water. You know, one one thing we’ve learned is when you’re working in a particular area, you don’t
47:05
47 minutes, 5 seconds
call it a surf pool because straight away any of the um regulatory bodies are doing, oh, it’s a pool, therefore it’s
47:12
47 minutes, 12 seconds
got to follow this, you know, surfing lakes is really where we are. But all that how that body of water works from a from a water tech uh from a water
Chapter 14: Surfing Lakes & Large Bodies of Water
47:20
47 minutes, 20 seconds
quality point of view, how that’s then applied across and and it’s different in different regions. um you know we’re
47:27
47 minutes, 27 seconds
doing one in London where we got some very set um parameters to have to work in. Uh two very similar schemes have
47:35
47 minutes, 35 seconds
just been finished. One in Mexico, one in Brazil and we’re fascinated by the way that they have, you know, that they’ve been engineered and how they’ve
47:42
47 minutes, 42 seconds
been contracted. So that there’s this great wealth of ideas. One thing I know is that when we’re doing this and I’ve
47:50
47 minutes, 50 seconds
I’ve mentioned some of these other large bodies of water of how we’re you can activate and make the water do more and more for you from a from a leisure
47:59
47 minutes, 59 seconds
perspective in all different types of environments. But some of the technologies we’ve we’ve developing you know for surf lakes for example some of
48:07
48 minutes, 7 seconds
the learnings there you can then cross refer that into even larger bodies of water and work how that works. So things
48:14
48 minutes, 14 seconds
like that I think are are a rolling evolvement. The products, you know, you’re just you got we got some very creative people in this industry. We’re
48:23
48 minutes, 23 seconds
going to keep on seeing new ideas and coming forward. So I think that will be it fundamentally
48:30
48 minutes, 30 seconds
my s simple approach is that what is a water park? Well, it’s all about the kids. If you keep the kids happy, you keep the banners. So always just good
48:38
48 minutes, 38 seconds
inventive ideas. You need some large bodies of water, wave machines or um lazy rivers to to hold folk. You need a
48:46
48 minutes, 46 seconds
good um selection of rides and attractions depending on what you’re trying to get the the the the what the end business plan for the end project
48:55
48 minutes, 55 seconds
is. How long people staying, what type of people are coming, all of those sort of things. But fundamentally, there are some building blocks that what you actually put in there. Then you got the
49:02
49 minutes, 2 seconds
food and beverage and you’ve got the changing, you’ve got the whole guest line experience, all of those sort of things. Um so I don’t see that changing
49:10
49 minutes, 10 seconds
dramatically unless it’s going to be driven by different types of technologies. I think that that will will have some advancements no doubt. Um
49:18
49 minutes, 18 seconds
but the the the the fundamental thing around which um people enjoying water and getting wet in it in as many
49:26
49 minutes, 26 seconds
different ways as you you can I think ultimately that’s always going to be to be a winner, isn’t it? Yeah.
49:33
49 minutes, 33 seconds
Yeah. Well, do you think there do you think like there there has to be something for all types of people?
49:38
49 minutes, 38 seconds
Because I mean, I’m one of those I’m like a lazy river person. I do.
49:43
49 minutes, 43 seconds
Yeah. Well, I mean, I’ll ride rides, but you know, yeah, I’m not a huge fan of these big, fast, steep rides. I do them just to say that I’ve done them.
49:52
49 minutes, 52 seconds
Yeah, I do them, but Yeah. And as I get a bit older, I realize my body’s not doing everything it should do in the in the same order it used to do it. So, I’m Yeah, I’m with
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50 minutes, 1 second
you. I I like I if I’m honest, if I take my family group to anything like that, a water park, whatever, as long as they’re
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having a good time, I’m having a good time. And it’s as much just watching going on a few rides with them. We we had a great time at um the Kalahari uh
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recently. We went as a big family group and it was just fantastic, you know, just being around my little group of 15
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say little um the days of 100 dollar pizza meals out way gone.
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Um but uh yeah, no I think that is for me the the the thing and being able to do that comfortably and to be able to do
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it. I’ve got a four-year-old and a 15y old and everything in between. And being able to go with any one of those seven and for them to have something to do.
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Um, yeah, that that’s that’s uh that’s what it’s all about.
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That’s how I feel, too. I I like the cabana and I like the lazy river.
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But all I love seeing the kids have fun on the slides and and doing their thing or, you know, I love that there’s something for
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everybody. And I think that that’s an important part of probably how you guys are designing.
Chapter 15: The Evolution of Cabanas & Guest Experience
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Yeah. I mean Cabanas, you know, I don’t know 15 years ago, they they were still think then it was realized what the
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51 minutes, 19 seconds
potential from an operation um uh revenue stream you know could be and then all the things you can now do. Um
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51 minutes, 28 seconds
this is some of these cabanas that we’ve been involved in like a home from home.
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51 minutes, 32 seconds
You got television, you got air conditioning. Yeah. It’s just something that you would never I’m I’m old school.
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I think if Guanas is a place to park yourself and have be able to have a comfortable time, but um yeah, thing
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things like that. I’m sure there’s going to be developments of guest experience and, you know, keeping people longer, wanting them to come back. And it
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doesn’t necessarily just have to be in the rides or the water. It can be in all the all the all the whole experience that goes around it.
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52 minutes, 4 seconds
Well, my new product, I’m creating a cabana queen badge. There we go. Tell me more.
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52 minutes, 11 seconds
It’s It’s the mom who rents the most cabanas. Oh.
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52 minutes, 15 seconds
Or it could be a dad, too. We’re trying to figure out how to make it Yeah.
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genderless, but it’s working title is the cabana queen badge.
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52 minutes, 24 seconds
Okay. So as you book the whoever books the most cabanas for the season gets the badge. Okay.
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52 minutes, 31 seconds
So it’s kind of like an award. It gifies it. Some of the shopping or some of the transactions that are happening in the parks.
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52 minutes, 37 seconds
There you go. That’s that’s another advice.
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That’s because of my own experience, right? What I like to do in a water park. Well, this is such a fascinating conversation, especially with all the the history that you have.
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And then also, you know, I I love that you’ve really spoken about the heart of this industry, which is the relationships.
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And I think it’s it’s interesting hearing your story about how a lot of these projects that are innovative and
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kind of mind-blowing, I’m sure, to outsiders.
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I mean it even to people in in in the industry, you know, when I see some of these parks that are being built, I can’t wrap my head around the work that you do.
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Mhm.
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53 minutes, 20 seconds
I know. I know you you mentioned you you use computers the same way you’ve always used computers. So maybe you can’t wrap
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your head around technology the way that that that I do, but I’m so fascinated and so in awe by what you guys create,
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you know, and we we come in at the very end when it’s all done. So it’s been it’s it’s been really cool hearing these stories.
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The pluries, the the team, you know, again, this doesn’t it’s not down to one or two people at all. is down to the the
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whole army of folk both in-house and outhouse and all the industrywide um activities that that deliver these
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and it only works if you are bringing everybody to the table. You know, you you do need all the different skill
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sets. If you went around again the the trade show here, all those different vendors showing all their different things from the food and beverage side of things to the comfort side of things.
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All things which just m go to make the experience of a water park something memorable, something that you’re going to want people to come back to. That
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that’s that’s a collective thing. And that comes back to this whole industry and all the different relationships that
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cross refer within it and indeed outside into into the wider communities. And it it is it it the more I’m thinking now
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about this generational thing, you know, where the expectations of the kids that
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were born in the last five years when in 10 years time or 20 years time they’re they’re part of a bigger family group
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themselves. and and we’re we’re sort of distant memories in some ways from then.
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That is uh that’s what we’re rolling to and I’m I’m confident it’s going to roll successfully so long as we the the
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relational side of everything we’re doing remains one of the the it’s not the be all and end all. You you still deliver jobs.
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Yeah.
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Not having a relationship. It’s just a lot harder in my mind.
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Yeah. Um, but so long as that the the road we’re on, I think is a good one.
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It’s a challenging one. You know, we we don’t know the the some of the geopolitical things that hit us
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globally. Uh some of the money related uh issues that challenge funding and everything else that goes with it. the
55:44
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bringing together you probably picked up in London last week the the level of you know sustainability and green environmental issues becoming
Chapter 16: Sustainability as an Industry Driver
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absolutely the heart and soul that if we’re talking of trends going forward is going to become a real driver and you know the industry has been responding
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probably slower than it could have done um I think that’s probably a global thing you know sure lip service in you know 15 years
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ago we’re green because we’re not losing so much paper always saving a bit of water. That’s become a much more
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meaningful thing. Not so much because it’s the right thing, but also what the expectation of our children. Yeah. You know, yes.
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Yeah. They they’re challenging that now because it’s it’s the world we’re leaving them. So, I think again there’s
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a number of areas there which um will become drivers into where where this leads going forward. Yeah, I think
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that’s a strong point because even my kids because they have so much information today on their cell phones more than we had or even I had
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you know the uh there are certain things they won’t buy or they won’t do because it’s not meeting
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you know it’s either not sustainable or it’s the company’s doing something that they don’t agree with. Mhm. And and
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we’re water parks. We’re in an environment where we’re we are using very um precious commodities, water, power,
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energy uh generally. And it it’s again something that’s become an increasing trend in in recent years almost as a
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prerequisite. now of any funders lending into a project, they want to see a very robust um environmental policy,
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sustainability that that and otherwise they don’t want to be seen to be lending to someone that is is overseeing that. So that that is
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another solid reason why we have to do these things. The other part of the the triangle was the planners. anybody giving permission for a project to be
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developed again there’s some very rigorous both local and national requirements that you have to meet so I
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think again these things combined um guest expectations standardization
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advancements of technology together they’re all going to combine into something that some things we haven’t even thought of some things we’ve
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perhaps got in the back of our minds that we yet don’t have the ability to see how that can be physically delivered. So, uh, yeah. No, it’s I’m
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sure things are going to remain exciting and vibrant.
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Yeah, I’m really excited to see where things go.
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Well, before I let you go, I’m curious if there was one takeaway that you could
Chapter 17: Roger’s Advice: Invest in Relationships
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leave with the audience in terms of what they could do maybe to have a career like yours and to be a part of this
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industry that we both love. I know. I know I I I can tell that you have passion for this industry, that you love it, but what would that
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Well, not everybody is. I think I’m very relationship driven. I think it’s in my DNA from before I can remember walking,
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you know, I I I I’ve just had this affinity to want to be involved with other people and probably ultimately
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because I’m seeing that there’s more to be experienced if if you do that. So I
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would say um just just have a look at what your immediate family
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work group is and what can you do to maximize all that around the there are
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some people that you you perhaps work with or have worked with or for uh and you never really got to know them and
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yet that person could have a talent or an opinion ion or something that is exactly what you need that you don’t
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even know you need yet. And so to to work on the to work on the relationship
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to to the point at which you feel that you’re you’re maximizing that um the
1:00:00
1 hour
answers very often around you and it’s very often with somebody that you perhaps haven’t even thought of that’s got it. Well, and I think what’s
1:00:09
1 hour, 9 seconds
cool about what you’ve been saying is that you’re aligning all of these people with this same goal.
1:00:17
1 hour, 17 seconds
And I don’t know how you could do that successfully without having the relationships.
1:00:21
1 hour, 21 seconds
I mean, you could do it like you said, it just would make the process a little more painful. I work with one of the masters
1:00:28
1 hour, 28 seconds
of that in in Chuck. I mean, he just one of the most gregarious f people I know.
1:00:34
1 hour, 34 seconds
Um, and is a pleasure to work on. So we we we’re very likeminded in in in a lot of of what we do. But again, you know,
1:00:44
1 hour, 44 seconds
you can take it to a point where you’re involved, you’re engaged, you’re understanding people, you’re you’re able
1:00:50
1 hour, 50 seconds
to identify, and I’m I’m talking now people both that might work for you or you work alongside or or people that um
1:00:58
1 hour, 58 seconds
you work, you know, within the industry, that the more you get to know people, the the the greater the benefit mutually. And it only works if it’s
1:01:07
1 hour, 1 minute, 7 seconds
mutual. I mean, to just use a relationship to try and get to an end is always a very shortterm thing. So,
1:01:15
1 hour, 1 minute, 15 seconds
and it and it’s absolutely this week it’s here. It’s the heart of it. It the more you give, the more you’ll get back.
1:01:21
1 hour, 1 minute, 21 seconds
So in all these sessions of people that’s spending hours putting together presentations, sharing hard-earned information,
1:01:29
1 hour, 1 minute, 29 seconds
not not receiving any reward for doing that other than just seeing that all of that coming together. And one of those people in any of those audiences might
1:01:38
1 hour, 1 minute, 38 seconds
be listening to something you say that then sparks something that you you none of us can tell where that ends up. And
1:01:46
1 hour, 1 minute, 46 seconds
so yeah, that that is what I mean by the circle that eventually it will come back around and it all moves on.
1:01:57
1 hour, 1 minute, 57 seconds
Yeah, I love that. Well, thank you so much for being here. Thank you.
1:02:00
1 hour, 2 minutes
Appreciate the conversation and getting to know you a little more and hearing these stories. You said it was fascinating. Yeah, thank you.
1:02:08
1 hour, 2 minutes, 8 seconds
Good.